DUST Search - Something CCP has done correct, and could learn from.

Aero Yassavi wrote:

Introducing something extremely underpowered and gradually buffing it over time may result in less QQ but at the same time takes longer. Imagine you have to find a specific number between 1 and 100, with that number representing perfect balance. Every time you select a number you will be told if its over powered or under powered. What's the fastest way to find the number?

You start out with something in the middle, so 50. Say you are told that it under powered. Instead of buffering it to 51, you do something drastic and buff it it 75. Then say you are told that is way too overpowered. Everyone on the internet rages an complains, but now you know that perfect balance lies somewhere in-between 51 and 74, whereas if you would of only buffed it to 51 and were told it was under powered then you only know that perfect balance lies somewhere inbetween 52 and 100. By making the significant change you reduced your range to just 24 opposed to 49 and will more than likely find perfect balance much sooner.

So yes it's just an analogy but it is a fairly good rule in game design if you're trying to balance something as quickly as possible to establish both extremes to narrow down where balance lies. Not saying that the other method doesn't work, the Commando suit is getting closer and closer to balance, however it had to suffer a very long time as an under powered suit and there is still no guarantee that the commando won't still be under powered after the update, even though it does appear it won't be.

Arx Ardashir wrote:

I tried the Commando day one and loved seeing the red gauntlets as I reloaded. Unfortunately, as I only use Amarrian weaponry, there isn't too much diversity between available weapons to justify commando use.

I suppose I could go SCR + aSCR, LR + aSCR, or aSCR + aSCR, but meh, never really had the need for a back-up when using any of those on their own.

When/If the Amarr get a light AV weapon, oh brother, you better watch out. I'll be skilled proto day one (have 5m unspent SP right now, so you can only imagine what it'll be then).

aSCR + LR is an amazing combo. aSCR to mow everyone down up close and LR to pick on everyone far away. Blink

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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 429	Posted - 2014.03.03 11:17:00 - [1] - Quote The Commando, while that suit has consistently been under used and somewhat underpowered has great potential. Fortunately it didnt get introduced in an overpowered way, instead it is getting slight buffs here and there. That is a great way to introduce the suit and find its balance, from the bottom up without crazy overuse or roaring calls from the masses for nerfs....
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1867	Posted - 2014.03.03 12:26:00 - [2] - Quote Soooooo... like... the Scrambler Rifle, then? Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 883	Posted - 2014.03.03 12:44:00 - [3] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Soooooo... like... the Scrambler Rifle, then? CCP Wolfman is a fan of ScR so it will remain OP as long as he has a say Plasma Cannon performs its suppresion/area denial role perfectly Pity dust players only perform one role - slaying
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 430	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:13:00 - [4] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Soooooo... like... the Scrambler Rifle, then? CCP Wolfman is a fan of ScR so it will remain OP as long as he has a say You know I both use and am fully speced into Srambler Rifles and Pistols both ;with the shield bonus, high alpha, and dps of over 900 without prof or damage mods, which is double the Kalakiota not to mention lack of dispersion, , and great hip fire plus large clip size I do not see how the Viziam has flown under the nerf radar for so long.... Possibly because of the skill required in managing overheat, the fact thats its truly only bad ass when you pair it with the racial suit to which it belongs 'Amarr Assault' which isnt very popular.. In anticipation of these soon to be Caldari Heavys, I can only smile at the irony that the Amarr and their Vicious Viziams while allies of Caldari will be the best bet to stop waddling Master Race fatties from HMGing us all....
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7077	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:27:00 - [5] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Soooooo... like... the Scrambler Rifle, then? Uhh... It's just as powerful as ever, the only difference is that they changed the charge time bonus to cool down speed. Yeah, it's slightly better, but it was still an excellent rifle before. I tried it day one, it was great. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1409	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:44:00 - [6] - Quote Yes, and soon it will be so good that everybody will use it. Why are their even other suits in the game? Just go with the easiest winning thing. The most protection with the most weapons. Heavy, heavy, heavy. Might as well. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
LOADED'HORN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:12:00 - [7] - Quote They have six months data of the commando in game. That should have helped a lot. I use adv on an alt to good effect plus it's really fun. The basics are getting high /low slots, and isk cost will be the same as other suits. Shield regen should be better to. My basic is CR/shotty with compact nano. Adv suit using SR/RR + adv shield energizer and adv armor repair or regulator, compact. Plus 10 other various load outs...= Really fun! That Diversity. Most don't realize have much fun they are. Not even going to mention that turbo reload lol.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 435	Posted - 2014.03.03 16:03:00 - [8] - Quote LOADED'HORN wrote: They have six months data of the commando in game. That should have helped a lot. I use adv on an alt to good effect plus it's really fun. The basics are getting high /low slots, and isk cost will be the same as other suits. Shield regen should be better to. My basic is CR/shotty with compact nano. Adv suit using SR/RR + adv shield energizer and adv armor repair or regulator, compact. Plus 10 other various load outs...= Really fun! That Diversity. Most don't realize have much fun they are. Not even going to mention that turbo reload lol. I have to run the energizer as well, 10hp shield regen...
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 1414	Posted - 2014.03.03 16:06:00 - [9] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: The Commando, while that suit has consistently been under used and somewhat underpowered has great potential. Fortunately it didnt get introduced in an overpowered way, instead it is getting slight buffs here and there. That is a great way to introduce the suit and find its balance, from the bottom up without crazy overuse or roaring calls from the masses for nerfs.... the price is OP Who wants some?
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 483	Posted - 2014.03.03 16:08:00 - [10] - Quote Minmatar Commando is gonna be badass. Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 6/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Roll with the punches instead of QQing

LOADED'HORN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2014.03.03 16:29:00 - [11] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: LOADED'HORN wrote: They have six months data of the commando in game. That should have helped a lot. I use adv on an alt to good effect plus it's really fun. The basics are getting high /low slots, and isk cost will be the same as other suits. Shield regen should be better to. My basic is CR/shotty with compact nano. Adv suit using SR/RR + adv shield energizer and adv armor repair or regulator, compact. Plus 10 other various load outs...= Really fun! That Diversity. Most don't realize have much fun they are. Not even going to mention that turbo reload lol. I have to run the energizer as well, 10hp shield regen... The new stats say shield regen will be from 15 on amarr and gallente minne at 18 and 20 hps per second on caldari. I will get a the new Cal adv scout and adv Cal commando day 1. The adv Cal commando with 2 highs and 1 low using complex shield, energizer and regulator should suffice. Reps from compact or better. All my racial alts are primed to try the new suits out. Only 2 more years And I can have em all on one account SOON hahaha.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 129	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:35:00 - [12] - Quote Can't wait for the new damage mods so I can reduce that -20% damage to armour that my scrambler has... Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10314	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:44:00 - [13] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: TheD1CK wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Soooooo... like... the Scrambler Rifle, then? CCP Wolfman is a fan of ScR so it will remain OP as long as he has a say You know I both use and am fully speced into Srambler Rifles and Pistols both ;with the shield bonus, high alpha, and dps of over 900 without prof or damage mods, which is double the Kalakiota not to mention lack of dispersion, , and great hip fire plus large clip size I do not see how the Viziam has flown under the nerf radar for so long.... Possibly because of the skill required in managing overheat, the fact thats its truly only bad ass when you pair it with the racial suit to which it belongs 'Amarr Assault' which isnt very popular.. In anticipation of these soon to be Caldari Heavys, I can only smile at the irony that the Amarr and their Vicious Viziams while allies of Caldari will be the best bet to stop waddling Master Race fatties from HMGing us all.... I find this whining about paper DPS statistics for the SCR hilarious. You know it's humanly impossible to shoot that fast, right? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 629	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:01:00 - [14] - Quote I tried the Commando day one and loved seeing the red gauntlets as I reloaded. Unfortunately, as I only use Amarrian weaponry, there isn't too much diversity between available weapons to justify commando use. I suppose I could go SCR + aSCR, LR + aSCR, or aSCR + aSCR, but meh, never really had the need for a back-up when using any of those on their own. When/If the Amarr get a light AV weapon, oh brother, you better watch out. I'll be skilled proto day one (have 5m unspent SP right now, so you can only imagine what it'll be then). Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 647	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:06:00 - [15] - Quote The problem is I haven't really seen a scenario where having two light weapons would have been useful. If I were using a Rail Rifle, I would have that for medium distances and if I needed an up close weapon Mr. Toxin SMG fit the bill. I don't think I have ever really had it as I needed a Light Weapon when I had a Side Arm.
LOADED'HORN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 60	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:48:00 - [16] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The problem is I haven't really seen a scenario where having two light weapons would have been useful. If I were using a Rail Rifle, I would have that for medium distances and if I needed an up close weapon Mr. Toxin SMG fit the bill. I don't think I have ever really had it as I needed a Light Weapon when I had a Side Arm. Consider Domination mode. Suppressing with a sniper, then pushing up with and hosing the reds with an assault type weapon. Tank bush with swarms to annoy and drive tanks away from friendlies, and use an RR/LR for standoff fire. Skirmish, installation or letter defense, shotty and mass driver. These set ups work. There are alot of options. The damage output+reload+hit points and modest mobility. Sounds great to me. It's also fun just for the wtf s you get. Noobs be staring, you'll be laughing. With time we will find better roles for Mandos. Can't say if they are PC viable tho. Never seen or heard of anyone using one to fight in Pc. Now with more slots and ability it could happen.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2475	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:51:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: TheD1CK wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Soooooo... like... the Scrambler Rifle, then? CCP Wolfman is a fan of ScR so it will remain OP as long as he has a say You know I both use and am fully speced into Srambler Rifles and Pistols both ;with the shield bonus, high alpha, and dps of over 900 without prof or damage mods, which is double the Kalakiota not to mention lack of dispersion, , and great hip fire plus large clip size I do not see how the Viziam has flown under the nerf radar for so long.... Possibly because of the skill required in managing overheat, the fact thats its truly only bad ass when you pair it with the racial suit to which it belongs 'Amarr Assault' which isnt very popular.. In anticipation of these soon to be Caldari Heavys, I can only smile at the irony that the Amarr and their Vicious Viziams while allies of Caldari will be the best bet to stop waddling Master Race fatties from HMGing us all.... I find this whining about paper DPS statistics for the SCR hilarious. You know it's humanly impossible to shoot that fast, right? Does that mean we can nerf the RoF on it? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7114	Posted - 2014.03.03 19:07:00 - [18] - Quote Introducing something extremely underpowered and gradually buffing it over time may result in less QQ but at the same time takes longer. Imagine you have to find a specific number between 1 and 100, with that number representing perfect balance. Every time you select a number you will be told if its over powered or under powered. What's the fastest way to find the number? You start out with something in the middle, so 50. Say you are told that it under powered. Instead of buffering it to 51, you do something drastic and buff it it 75. Then say you are told that is way too overpowered. Everyone on the internet rages an complains, but now you know that perfect balance lies somewhere in-between 51 and 74, whereas if you would of only buffed it to 51 and were told it was under powered then you only know that perfect balance lies somewhere inbetween 52 and 100. By making the significant change you reduced your range to just 24 opposed to 49 and will more than likely find perfect balance much sooner. So yes it's just an analogy but it is a fairly good rule in game design if you're trying to balance something as quickly as possible to establish both extremes to narrow down where balance lies. Not saying that the other method doesn't work, the Commando suit is getting closer and closer to balance, however it had to suffer a very long time as an under powered suit and there is still no guarantee that the commando won't still be under powered after the update, even though it does appear it won't be. Arx Ardashir wrote: I tried the Commando day one and loved seeing the red gauntlets as I reloaded. Unfortunately, as I only use Amarrian weaponry, there isn't too much diversity between available weapons to justify commando use. I suppose I could go SCR + aSCR, LR + aSCR, or aSCR + aSCR, but meh, never really had the need for a back-up when using any of those on their own. When/If the Amarr get a light AV weapon, oh brother, you better watch out. I'll be skilled proto day one (have 5m unspent SP right now, so you can only imagine what it'll be then). aSCR + LR is an amazing combo. aSCR to mow everyone down up close and LR to pick on everyone far away. Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 442	Posted - 2014.03.03 21:22:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Introducing something extremely underpowered and gradually buffing it over time may result in less QQ but at the same time takes longer. Imagine you have to find a specific number between 1 and 100, with that number representing perfect balance. Every time you select a number you will be told if its over powered or under powered. What's the fastest way to find the number? You start out with something in the middle, so 50. Say you are told that it under powered. Instead of buffering it to 51, you do something drastic and buff it it 75. Then say you are told that is way too overpowered. Everyone on the internet rages an complains, but now you know that perfect balance lies somewhere in-between 51 and 74, whereas if you would of only buffed it to 51 and were told it was under powered then you only know that perfect balance lies somewhere inbetween 52 and 100. By making the significant change you reduced your range to just 24 opposed to 49 and will more than likely find perfect balance much sooner. So yes it's just an analogy but it is a fairly good rule in game design if you're trying to balance something as quickly as possible to establish both extremes to narrow down where balance lies. Not saying that the other method doesn't work, the Commando suit is getting closer and closer to balance, however it had to suffer a very long time as an under powered suit and there is still no guarantee that the commando won't still be under powered after the update, even though it does appear it won't be. Arx Ardashir wrote: I tried the Commando day one and loved seeing the red gauntlets as I reloaded. Unfortunately, as I only use Amarrian weaponry, there isn't too much diversity between available weapons to justify commando use. I suppose I could go SCR + aSCR, LR + aSCR, or aSCR + aSCR, but meh, never really had the need for a back-up when using any of those on their own. When/If the Amarr get a light AV weapon, oh brother, you better watch out. I'll be skilled proto day one (have 5m unspent SP right now, so you can only imagine what it'll be then). aSCR + LR is an amazing combo. aSCR to mow everyone down up close and LR to pick on everyone far away. I think your analogy represents to fine of a point for the suits, this might be true with numbers but not dropsuits. I still contend this is a better way.


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