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Fraceska
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
498
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Posted - 2014.02.28 05:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Fraceska wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:How do you determine the meta level of a person if they have a ton of proto fiys, but run the one standard fit mainly?
Or the guy with a ton of standard and militia fits but primarily runs their one proto fit?
It's a good idea, but it would have a hard time telling if somebody was cheating the system to stomp in lower meta level matches. First thought would be you select what suits you take into battle. So while you may have a lot of fittings you can't take them all which makes sense. If you include a pro suit in the list you won't receive anything less than an adv meta game. So if you chose militia/std gear then you would get those matches with the max meta of 3, etc etc. Hmm. I really like that idea. Go make a full-blown thread man. That thought needs attention.
Discuss? |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1150
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Posted - 2014.02.28 05:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
the search function should yield about 20 threads discussing this very thing.
nothing was accomplished on the subject and nothing likely ever will |
Beck Weathers
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
549
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like turtles
These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
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Fraceska
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
498
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh forums how helpful you are. |
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
1817
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
(Back!)
This idea I feel would better match the gear level of players while not completely locking prototype gear from matches.
As well, it might add a bit to the planning aspect of battles. Do you want to bring that heavy suit, or a sniper class? Or light AV? It adds a level of thought to your prematch setup, and gives the war barge a purpose, so you can talk to each other on what your bringing, and what others need to bring, instead of being a place to play keep in the corner.
This addition layer of MNing should be layered on top of squad balancing MMing and rough skill estimate matching.
tl;dr This idea still allows proto in pubs, but also keeps those wanting a militia only match safe from roaming PC death squads, while adding a pre-thought to what you bring to battle. Just bear in mind this needs to be layered on top of other, more mainstream MMing techniques such as squad balancing and rough skill estimates.
Looking for a Interesting Character Name?
Why Not Zoidberg?
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1150
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fraceska wrote:Oh forums how helpful you are.
the search function IS helpful... unfortunatly its rarely used even for incredably poular topics such as this, respecs, and the tank/av debate |
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
1817
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:the search function should yield about 20 threads discussing this very thing.
nothing was accomplished on the subject and nothing likely ever will
Those simply suggested averaging meta levels of all fits available, leaving it abuseable and equally as pointless as out current matchmaking.
This idea brings up both simple MMing, but also serves to corn omnitroopers which kinda ruin the games focus on specializing
Looking for a Interesting Character Name?
Why Not Zoidberg?
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1150
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:the search function should yield about 20 threads discussing this very thing.
nothing was accomplished on the subject and nothing likely ever will Those simply suggested averaging meta levels of all fits available, leaving it abuseable and equally as pointless as out current matchmaking. This idea brings up both simple MMing, but also serves to corn omnitroopers which kinda ruin the games focus on specializing
every concievable thing has been talked about on the topic, and ultimatly no good can ever come of it and no similar idea of meta matchmaking can work.
at best all non applicable fits can be made invalid for the match and thats literally the best option that we have for the subject. ultimatly though we have need of another way not based on meta.
its been duscussed to death, literally the idea is dead. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2436
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Posted - 2014.02.28 07:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Lucrezia LeGrand
352
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Posted - 2014.02.28 07:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fraceska wrote:Oh forums how helpful you are.
we've let you down once again. T-T
Thale groupie
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Billi Gene
496
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Posted - 2014.02.28 07:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
bleh just keep the sandpit in mind.
don't limit players from entering a match set up for meta 1 gear, on the basis that they have meta 6 fits.
just don't let them use those meta 6 fits!
sure they'll still have more armor, shields, cpu and pg as well as weapon profs and opts, but if they cant fit above meta 2(?) they'll still be within a means dictated up by the match type.
ADV. matches (meta 3-4 ??) same deal, but the tolerances would be slimmer as concerns average player lifetime SP totals. Newer players would most likely inhabit the meta 1 matches for a decent amount of time.
Given current player pop. its likely that meta 1 matches would become the staple, and we'd actually see some good battles, as opposed to 50% (statistics NVR Lie!!!11!) of matches being a stomp. And by good i mean matches like we saw in beta, where isk was never a concern, the only thought was winning!!!!.... which gave rise to some epic comebacks/reversals/stompings/evenly matched grinds.
game play should be fun, even if you are losing there should be some low hanging fruit to keep the game interesting and maintain player immersion.
Meta limited battles sound fun, and even though newberries will still get pasted against the wall in an interesting rendition of something by Pollock, just like in beta it will still be possible for them to out wit or out match a bitter vet.
(closed beta is the beta i am referencing, where we had nothing but what is now the militia gear.....)
(i've also never bothered to look at an items meta before /doh)
Pedant, Ape, Troll.
My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
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Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
1101
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Posted - 2014.02.28 08:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over. But it can't. Not with out your help. But you're not helping. |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
190
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think for simplicity it could be a maximum suit level, like ADV or Std. Modules and weapons being whatever you want. I moslty say this because I'm Caldari and Shields are Pathetic till complex.
"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
529
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gear matters very little. It's why when I made a new character today I went 55/4 in a Medic suit in the academy match.
Skill is much better then the suit you wear, but when you're good at the game, why not use what you can afford because you're good.
Director of ZionTCD
Amarr Logi | Amarr Sentinel | Amarr Scout (SoonGäó)
TDBS
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3632
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
I wouldn't keep people from deploying to battles with higher tier items on suits. I'd rather just keep them from being able to select a suit with items over STD tier. You have a mostly STD fit with complex dmg mods? Suit is colored red and can't be deployed unless you edit it while looking at the deploy screen. Your only low tier suits are starter fits? That's all you'll be able to use.
Meta is a bit dodgy because they've mislabled the Meta on several items (well, that, or they screwed up the stats). I'd just do tiers. Is it "STD" tier? Then you can deploy it. Is it ADV tier? That suit won't work. This would also free up weapon variants (breach versions, etc.) that don't technically jump up tiers, but are sometimes above meta 1 just the same.
It might be possible for a person to get auto-kicked while they try to assemble a suit when everything they have is PRO (they could just select a starter fit if they wanted to do it quickly), but I imagine that sort of thing is manageable for anyone that's played long enough to have higher tier suits.
The larger problem with Meta or tier-gating is that we're limited to 30 fittings, and there's no folders or anything to organize them. So, if you have Assault and Logi specs, and some degree of variety in weapons/fits... you quickly run out of space trying to maintain a list of suits with variety. The sort of AUR things they sell like the Mauler/Scout fits almost presuppose you just have free fitting slots as well.
God forbid the players try to have an interesting range of fits of all different sorts. The system's hardwired to restrict your customization options right now.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3632
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Posted - 2014.02.28 11:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:Gear matters very little. It's why when I made a new character today I went 55/4 in a Medic suit in the academy match.
Skill is much better then the suit you wear, but when you're good at the game, why not use what you can afford because you're good.
Skill matters more than gear. And knowledge trumps most anything - all vets are going to know every map backwards.
Gear does matter though. So, while passives, skill, teamwork, and in-game knowledge are a huge advantage to any veteran player; it's disingenuous to suggest the fact that when you get in a 1-on-1 with a new player and you have a giant hp advantage and 2 complex damage mods... it's only your player skill that's helping you win.
Gear-restrictions won't make new players winners every time, but it smooths over some of the power gap.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
1822
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:THUNDERGROOVE wrote:Gear matters very little. It's why when I made a new character today I went 55/4 in a Medic suit in the academy match.
Skill is much better then the suit you wear, but when you're good at the game, why not use what you can afford because you're good. Skill matters more than gear. And knowledge trumps most anything - all vets are going to know every map backwards. Gear does matter though. So, while passives, skill, teamwork, and in-game knowledge are a huge advantage to any veteran player; it's disingenuous to suggest the fact that when you get in a 1-on-1 with a new player and you have a giant hp advantage and 2 complex damage mods... it's only your player skill that's helping you win. Gear-restrictions won't make new players winners every time, but it smooths over some of the power gap.
Exactly. That's all we can do, right?
Looking for a Interesting Character Name?
Why Not Zoidberg?
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Fraceska
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
499
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Match making should be based on tiers with higher tiers having high isk payments. And you need suits that can compete in those tiers to be able to join in that match. So if your STD suit as ADV modules you can't use that fitting in lower tier games. Take out all factors of gears to get back to skill. This way you can still have your tiers (and sense of progression) and give players time to get use to the game and its customization.
Give new players better Aura tutorials. And while in those Academy/Meta 1 matches higher SP earnings until they reach say 2 million SP. Once you're at that SP you no longer get the bonus SP but can still compete in the tiers you have suits for. Of course this is only for Public Matches. FW and PC would still be open to whatever. |
Fraceska
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
499
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
If at that time the blue berries are still getting stomped then you can no longer say it was protostompers but solely down to skill of those involved. When a few hits from a weapon with complex damage mods against a militia suit can't say that is skill when they emptied their militia weapon into you and barely took down your shields. There is no skill in that, not sure how it is fun for either player.
This would also apply to all gear and equipment as well. If your medic suit as any adv/pro equipment it is barred from the match as well. Want to use your good stuff then go to those matches of similar meta level. Personally I would run in the adv/pro groups.
Maybe consider separating militia from meta 1 gear. |
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