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Spectre-M
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
321
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Posted - 2014.02.28 02:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
NPE and matchmaking are the major issues contributing to player retention. They go hand in hand. From having up front information ( weapon damage profiles as an example ), to having suitable areas for learning and adjusting to an ever changing battlefield.
EVE space is divided into null to high security, enforced by Concord. This is in place so that a new player isn't immediately faced with vet pilots looking to destroy stray newbies. This allows some room for new players to learn the ropes, before being throw to the wolves.
I believe a similar mechanic would work for Dusts poor retention.
Public contracts = high-sec ( up to adv )
Factional contracts = low-sec ( any )
Planetary conquest = null-sec ( any )
If any EVE players could share their knowledge on how effective it is, or if it can be modified to work here, it may help flesh out our numbers.
TLDR - learn to.
Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist
Minnmatar in Amarr Armor
I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1154
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Posted - 2014.02.28 05:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
The problem with just mirroring a sec mechanic is that the sec system does not actually ensure fair matches in the common sense of the term.
The things locked in high sec are among others, cynosural field generators. These would be analogous to you calling in as many additional mercs as you want and can spare if you have a ridiculously expensive and skill intensive asset as well as a specialized unit present in the match to set it off. The only way to prevent this would be to use a special type of suit using a special module in your team.
Thus, we are not really talking about protostomping style unfair but rather 128 vs16* rapid fire OB level asshatery that the eve sec system prevents.
To further complicate things. There are generally no limits on meta levels in eve which means that you can use faction frigates with officer modules that cost a fortune even in eve terms wherever you want. Such a ship would, technically, still be a frigate but actual numbers might even surpass cruisers in many places.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea (even though i'd prefer just much better MM). I'm just not sure the motivation behind both is comparable.
*Actually, you can totally crush that odd 20man corp stupid enough to wardec you with 300 guys if you so please. 
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7082
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Posted - 2014.02.28 05:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Malkai has a point. In Eve Online, high-tier ships can still engage low-tier ships in high-sec space as long as the following conditions are met.
1. Corp A has declared war against Corp B and therefore freely attack Corp B whenever they want without Concord intervention (bribing the po-po basically).
2. Player A has stolen an item in space (an item from a jet can or from a wreck) that belonged to Player B and thus Player B and his corp can freely engage.
3. Player A accepts duel request from Player B and thus Players A and B can freely shoot at each other until duel is over.
4. Player A has committed a seriously aggressive act in high-sec such as ganking a mining ship and thus he's fair game to anyone in system for the next 15 minutes.
5. Player A, B, C, D, E, F.... Z don't seem to care about the criminal flags they will get and thus they go ahead and get everyone in the system regardless of what ship they use.
Basically, you can do whatever the hell you damn well please in high-sec. Remember, the idea of high-sec is to feel "safer" not "safe". You are never 100% safe in high-sec.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Spectre-M
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
325
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Posted - 2014.03.04 02:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maybe when we have drones, concord will have a presence in pubs. I'm tired of watching the poor blueberries get stomped into dust.
It also sounds like there are more tools for corps in eve. It should almost be manditory to join a corp when leaving the academy. We also need more in game exposure for corps, because honestly no blueberry will last without a vet by his side.
Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist
Minnmatar in Amarr Armor
I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
454
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Posted - 2014.03.04 03:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
the sec system works for 2 reasons
1. free roam. players may go were they please low/null sec for high risk high reward or high sec for low risk low reward
2. high player count. allows for the large amount of area to be filled
dust currently has neither
Proud Christian
add p2p already!
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
454
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Posted - 2014.03.04 03:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spectre-M wrote:Maybe when we have drones, concord will have a presence in pubs. I'm tired of watching the poor blueberries get stomped into dust.
It also sounds like there are more tools for corps in eve. It should almost be manditory to join a corp when leaving the academy. We also need more in game exposure for corps, because honestly no blueberry will last without a vet by his side.
i wouldnt say mandatory. but eve does impose a 10% npc tax which makes players want to leave them
Proud Christian
add p2p already!
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Paul Ellinas
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
36
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Posted - 2014.03.04 03:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
There ar 2 problems to fix the proto/adv stomping of new players in pub's.
1) Players have to realize that gaining a good standing in FW is paint more out then pub matches. (maybe CCP has t increase a lit bit the LP payout)
2)PC is the only place where using proto suites is affordable. But in its current state its closed for the majority of proto players.
Fixing PC and increasing the LP payout in FW will fix pub's. As in Eve there will be always proto/adv stomping in pubs.
look up here for ideas to fix PC: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=145067&find=unread |
Spectre-M
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
325
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Posted - 2014.03.04 03:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
That's a good idea. Make it more appealing to leave npc corps by giving them a tax rate. It would also help keep tax rates in check by having a baseline to go by. I would like to see a corp library in the MQ, so that corps are presented more visually available. Right now the neocom corp section could be added to one of the dead consoles.
How does concord enforce high-sec? Do they have AI ships or is it a more imbedded as in fines and other subtle punishment?
Seems a lot of the mechanics in eve to buffer NPE cannot be implemented in their current form. I'm sure though, that in all that depth there is a small mechanic that could swing Dust in the right direction.
Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist
Minnmatar in Amarr Armor
I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
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Spectre-M
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
325
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Posted - 2014.03.04 04:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paul Ellinas wrote:There ar 2 problems to fix the proto/adv stomping of new players in pub's. 1) Players have to realize that gaining a good standing in FW is paint more out then pub matches. (maybe CCP has t increase a lit bit the LP payout) 2)PC is the only place where using proto suites is affordable. But in its current state its closed for the majority of proto players. Fixing PC and increasing the LP payout in FW will fix pub's. As in Eve there will be always proto/adv stomping in pubs. look up here for ideas to fix PC: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=145067&find=unread
This approach would work well. Free up PC so that big corps have their hands full up keeping and procuring districts. This would help limit the amount of lopsided matches by making vet players occupied. It would still occur of course ( warm up, cool down matches), but to a much lesser degree.
Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist
Minnmatar in Amarr Armor
I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1178
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Posted - 2014.03.04 04:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spectre-M wrote:That's a good idea. Make it more appealing to leave npc corps by giving them a tax rate. It would also help keep tax rates in check by having a baseline to go by. I would like to see a corp library in the MQ, so that corps are presented more visually available. Right now the neocom corp section could be added to one of the dead consoles.
How does concord enforce high-sec? Do they have AI ships or is it a more imbedded as in fines and other subtle punishment?
Seems a lot of the mechanics in eve to buffer NPE cannot be implemented in their current form. I'm sure though, that in all that depth there is a small mechanic that could swing Dust in the right direction. When warranted, they warp in a fleet of practically invincible instakill ships that pop the offending ship, but not his capsule (a kind of space lifeboat containing only your character with his potentially costly implants).
Once you get a criminal flag on you, they'll inevitably get you. In fact, avoiding concord intervention is deemed an exploit.
The fun part is getting the job done before they arrive. You usually have something between 18 and 32 seconds before you explode. 
I think the current protosomping issue is a mixture of no available activities for new players to retreat to (pve) and a rather unfun and overly exclusive activity for vets to retreat to (PC). A general lack of cost/risk associated with escalating a match to the highest level (PRO) plays into this aswell.
In EVE, using large amounts of ISK to stomp unsuspecting noobs is less of an issue because it's mostly a waste of time and resources to do so. In Dust, it's not only perfectly viable, there are little ways not to do it even if you try.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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