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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2736
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Posted - 2014.02.28 19:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Skihids wrote:You simply can't have one class of infantry killing suit that splits its opponents into two classes, one that can't touch it, and the other that can, but now at a big disadvantage to defending itself against other infantry.
That split magnifies its advantage over enemy infantry by splitting it into two groups. If you chose a weapon capable of fighting the tank you are still vulnerable to the tank but now you make yourself even more vulnerable to other infantry.
The tank suit doesn't have to make any choice. It is equally effective at killing AV infantry as it is killing AI infantry.
Thats because infantry is still infantry
A guy with a PLC is the same guy with swarms who is the same guy with a FG, they are all meat in a bag
As for no adv/pro hulls then its going to stay like this, you really think vehicle pilots in std hulls will like to get instablapped by proto AV? if you want that you should back to pre 1.7 days when that was the norm
We have proto mods/turrets but no hulls, infantry on the otherhand have proto everything
If im fighting tanks i can use rails, they are crap at killing infantry, if i want infantry dead il use the blaster but i give up my tank bashing ability
Whats the problem?
Intelligence is OP
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2741
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Posted - 2014.02.28 22:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skihids wrote:You don't really give up your tank bashing ability with blasters. You can still fight tanks as well as infantry. Plenty of people manage it as the blaster tank can take advantage of its turret speed to dance around a rail tank and stay away from its main gun.
Tanks are just meat inside a small bag inside another bag.
The problem is the blaster tank is great at everything while its main opponent is crippled against it.
The problem is demonstrated by the fact that we have a vehicle cap and without it we would get Ambush matches with 100% tanks on at least one side. When you have to artificially limit a role you know it's OP.
Yes i do
I do not have a blaster which can inflict over 1k of pure dmg against another tank, against a shield tank or even a maddy if i cant break the regen or the rep rate i wont kill it, i would need help from AV or another tank or even an ADS
We had a vehicle cap when vehicles were pure crap, what does that prove?
Intelligence is OP
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2744
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Posted - 2014.03.01 11:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Skihids wrote:You don't really give up your tank bashing ability with blasters. You can still fight tanks as well as infantry. Plenty of people manage it as the blaster tank can take advantage of its turret speed to dance around a rail tank and stay away from its main gun.
Tanks are just meat inside a small bag inside another bag.
The problem is the blaster tank is great at everything while its main opponent is crippled against it.
The problem is demonstrated by the fact that we have a vehicle cap and without it we would get Ambush matches with 100% tanks on at least one side. When you have to artificially limit a role you know it's OP. Yes i do I do not have a blaster which can inflict over 1k of pure dmg against another tank, against a shield tank or even a maddy if i cant break the regen or the rep rate i wont kill it, i would need help from AV or another tank or even an ADS We had a vehicle cap when vehicles were pure crap, what does that prove? It doesn't matter if another tank can counter you or not, that question is irrelevant. Lets just say I concede your point and rail tanks are your natural predator that you can never escape. Your role then is 100% AI. You compete directly with infantry for infantry kills. Therefore your fitting must be balanced with any other person playing that role. That means you are just as vulnerable one-on-one with any other infantry unit. No fair saying that only some small percentage of infantry can hurt you when you can hurt them all. No fair saying that if they can hurt you they can't hurt other infantry. Forget for a moment the outward aspects of your suit and concentrate on the role. Design the balance with the thought that your opponent gets to chose which role you play and which role he plays after you make your choices. If you make one all powerful he will chose that and give you the weak one. Do that honestly and you will see that tanks can't be AI focused and still remain recognizable as tanks.
Last i checked a Tank isnt an Infantry suit
I may compete with infantry for infantry kills but thats because i fitted up my tank to do so with enough defense to try and keep of a tank attack or live long enough for backup
New eden isnt fair
Intelligence is OP
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2759
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Posted - 2014.03.02 15:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Skihids wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Skihids wrote:You don't really give up your tank bashing ability with blasters. You can still fight tanks as well as infantry. Plenty of people manage it as the blaster tank can take advantage of its turret speed to dance around a rail tank and stay away from its main gun.
Tanks are just meat inside a small bag inside another bag.
The problem is the blaster tank is great at everything while its main opponent is crippled against it.
The problem is demonstrated by the fact that we have a vehicle cap and without it we would get Ambush matches with 100% tanks on at least one side. When you have to artificially limit a role you know it's OP. Yes i do I do not have a blaster which can inflict over 1k of pure dmg against another tank, against a shield tank or even a maddy if i cant break the regen or the rep rate i wont kill it, i would need help from AV or another tank or even an ADS We had a vehicle cap when vehicles were pure crap, what does that prove? It doesn't matter if another tank can counter you or not, that question is irrelevant. Lets just say I concede your point and rail tanks are your natural predator that you can never escape. Your role then is 100% AI. You compete directly with infantry for infantry kills. Therefore your fitting must be balanced with any other person playing that role. That means you are just as vulnerable one-on-one with any other infantry unit. No fair saying that only some small percentage of infantry can hurt you when you can hurt them all. No fair saying that if they can hurt you they can't hurt other infantry. Forget for a moment the outward aspects of your suit and concentrate on the role. Design the balance with the thought that your opponent gets to chose which role you play and which role he plays after you make your choices. If you make one all powerful he will chose that and give you the weak one. Do that honestly and you will see that tanks can't be AI focused and still remain recognizable as tanks. Last i checked a Tank isnt an Infantry suit I may compete with infantry for infantry kills but thats because i fitted up my tank to do so with enough defense to try and keep of a tank attack or live long enough for backup New eden isnt fair Outward appearance aside, your blaster tank is playing the part of a dropsuit. It shares the same game role of infantry slayer as any other dropsuit. The role is the relevant factor here, not the shape. When someone chooses to shoot others in the face they have the option of many suits. Each has different strengths and weaknesses, but all are somewhat balanced against each other such that there is no clear winner. You can go heavy, Assault, or Scout depending on your play style. Or you can go blaster tank. It fills the same role. If you go that route you get a fitting with far more eHP, DPS, and speed than any other option. It is immune to the majority of your opponent's weapons. It's so superior that there is no reason not to choose it if you want to win the fight. There is a reason Ambush is a tank fest, it's the clear choice. So yeah, keep it the same and we will get DUST WoT.
If the fight is about depleting clones
Ambush is about killing the enemy, there is no holding circle, you use the tools best for the job, with some of the compounds in ambush the fight can be inside and tanks can be useless
Try it in domination in the Gallente compound, tell me how you went on with 6 tanks, doesnt matter i already know the answer you did **** didnt get many kills and lost the game in record time
In ambush what do you expect? its all about clones, if it isnt the 6 tanks rolling about it was the 6 protobears pubstomping but somehow thats okay but a tank isnt
6 protobears can **** more in ambush than tanks can, they can go places that tanks cant but the funny thing is i find the tanks keep the protobears in check where as before the 6 protobears would just **** and nothing could counter unless you had 6 other protobears
But thats lolambush a nonfactor mode
Try it in PC with 6 tanks, frankly the tanks cancel each other out and infantry is more important
Intelligence is OP
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2794
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Posted - 2014.03.04 11:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:If AI tanks are so useless, then why all the complaints? If they are a non factor then nobody would miss them.
Of course some maps render them less than useful, that's not the point. The tragedy is they don't have a unique role of their own. They compete directly with infantry and are either far superior or they can't participate at all.
I said lolambush is a nonfactor
Maps render AI tanks useless but thats not the point? but it is, we will have a variety of maps which play to different playstyles and because 1 playstyle is dominate on 1 map it doesnt need to be nerfed
Last i checked infantry is needed to hack a point, cant win a skim/domo/FW/PC match with all tanks unless you go for the clone count but if they have places to hide then you cant even do that
They only compete with infantry for kills and scan assists but thats it, they cant hack a point or even hold a point if they cant shoot the console and if they cant kill infantry how are they supposed to defend themselves from AV?
If you want tanks just to kill other tanks then atm its pointless because then what is the point of tanks?
You really want COD 514 Space edition?
Intelligence is OP
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