Pvt Numnutz wrote:
No I understand your point. I just don't think its a good point. To get vehicle destroying power you make yourself vulnerable to other infantry, like a forge gunner. That's balanced because av kills vehicles, infantry kills av, vehicles kill infantry, they all have counters. If the av player is with out a squad that can support him then he probably won't be doing very well sure, if he stays back behind a heavy and assault player he's not going to be fighting the enemy with his sidearm.
Infantry av has the added perk of infantry skills applying. So its a lot easier to also skill into other infantry roles. The suit you use for av can also be used for other infantry rolls. I don't understand why you say its unacceptable for an av player to be running a cheap infantry fit when there is no vehicles, then when there is run to a supply depot or if he dies switch to his primary av fit, That seems reasonable to me.
When I was learning to fly in chrome I had to run on the ground to get isk for my dropships (no transport wp, no pilot gun, hardly anyone wanting to get into the death traps) and since I wanted to be a dropship pilot I had all my sp invested in my dropships. On the ground I ran my starter fit logi praying the heavy i was repping would stay alive. The same argument you make here could also be applied to the dropship pilot role, its too expensive, fitting intensive and weak but you could also add sp intensive.
My point is, av doesn't have to always be running around in their av suits. They are in a good position to also use suits like other infantry. If they are needed they can switch, if they have a squad they can be protected. Vehicles are a role, and the counter to that role is the av role, why should every infantry player be able to whip out a swarm and deny the vehicle player his role? Because av suits are weak against suits designed to kill infantry? I'm sorry that's not a good enough reason for me to agree with you.
Destroying vehicles is a role, it requires the av player to think about how vehicles operate to destroy them while watching out for their counter like every other role in the game they shouldn't be exempt from a counter. There is a way to field both av and infantry weapons, its called the commando suit. Its not as effective at destroying vehicles as a dedicated av suit but it can deny an area to a vehicle if the squad encounters one right then and there.
Your post was very confusing because at the end you got it right, av players should be working with other infantry, they protect the infantry from vehicles and the infantry protects them from other infantry. Rock paper scissors.
you are missing the point.
that circle of killing doesn't work in dust at all.
tank kills infantry and av players, infantry kills av players, av players can't kill tanks because they are 1 shot as soon as they attack by snipers,tanks,other infantry, this means more tanks killing more infantry. infantry get pissed off and hide indoors or switch to sniping. snipers pick of more av as they attempt again to take out tanks. av player gives us playing av.
the whole notion of team av is flawed because as more go av then there is no one left to protect them.
tank is harassing team so they go av, now tank is no threat but the entire enemy team of infantry is. you respawn infantry and "oh another tank" this is the issue that's plaguing the game. players having ranged av as a backup while forge and tanks fulfill the main role is just common sense. there is no reason why it couldn't be balanced.
also your wrong to imply that av should be a role but then say they should run infantry when not needed. thats like saying all logis should not run repairs or ammo. they should wait for someone to be taking damage. then run back to the resupply, get a repair, then run back to heal the guy taking damage. its either a role or it isn't. if you can't be in it all the time its not a role and the fact is av setups are so weak and situational you cannot use them for anything else.
you also say av doesn't need to be always in av.... well most of the time they do. there are so many tanks,ds,lavs about now its a must have but to use swarms or plc to some extent means death and not for the tank you shoot at. how can av with the lowest life expectancy and the highest fitting cost after logi be a viable role especially if its only effective if there are more of you and with guards who cant protect you from snipers or light weapon fire or even the tanks themselves.
its not a role as it stands now. if it takes a group of players to make it work and a group of players to protect you as you do it then its broken. we see how its broken every day yet player choose to ignore it.
the fix is not as simple as a nerf or buff to either side.