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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1428
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Posted - 2014.02.10 17:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
So we recently got an outline from CCP Saberwing at their proposed bonuses to the Assaults and Logis for 1.8. Now I can't speculate on too much because there will likely be slot and fitting changes to the medium suits as well, as there were to the already released scout and heavies. Likely the slot counts will be the same for each race and configurations will be consistent (Caldari mirror Gallente), and I wouldn't be surprised if they added more slots to the Caldari and Amarr Logis or took away the sidearm (which I hope they don't have to).
What's important though is that the Assault and Logi have an important place in 1.8 without being superior to everything. I'll start with the Logis.
I've been a Logi since chrome and my Gallente Logi is the only suit I've taken to proto so any changes to them affect me more than any other changes. Sadly my suit as well as the Caldai Logi have been the most popular suits for those who's priority has never been support. So I would not be surprised if the logis were given a CPU/PG reduction as well as slot reductions here and their to keep their emphasis on support and leave the frontline combat to the Assaults. None of the bonuses being defensive or offensive show that orginal idea of "the support guy needs a high defense and repair because everyone will shoot at him and not having a sidearm and being a little slower means he won't be in the front" is no longer realistic. The Logi still has offensive capabilities but I hope it isn't favored for the frontline.
As for nerfing equipment and tying each suit to a racial piece of equipment.... I also think that's a step towards making the Logi more support oriented, though I feel the nerfs may have been a little harsh for some equipment, mainly the rep tool. If the issue was equipment spam, that stemmed less from the effectiveness of equipment and more from the high number of logis on the field. If they wanted to cut down on it, a logi/assault balance would have been enough to keep it minimal. Again though, I don't know what other changes there are so maybe it will work, making CRUs and Supply depots more important. Pushing logis towards support is easy but helping the assaults find a place is harder.
First off as far as I can tell the Assaults role is very much a balanced suit, flexible, not outdoing anyone else with any attribute, but doing them all very well. They are sturdier than scouts, more mobile and stealth than heavies, and have slot layouts allowing it to be very versatile. The slot layout and fitting requirements were the main reason the Logi was favored over the Assault, as it also had those advantages over the other frames and I hope the two suits will be balanced in that respect. The blanket weapon fitting bonus is appropriate, the sidearm is one of the advantages of the Assault and making it easier to fit a proto sidearm (which quite frankly isn't practical in most cases) is a great step in the right direction. A better decision than the ROF bonus, seeing as how fittings helps every weapon, keeping the Assault flexible. Now onto the racial bonuses.
The proposed Amarr bonus if perfect. The SCR and Amarr Assault compliment each other very well and for either of their shortcomings they make up for it when combined. I've always said the SCR is the best weapon, it just requires the most skill and the right suit. The Minmatar bonus is also appropriate as it compliments one of the main dropbacks to both the projectile and explosive weapons. Both these bonuses allow the suits paired with their respective racial weapons to fire longer without increasing DPS, which is great if sustained combat is the name of the game.
Now as for the Gallente and Caldari bonus I have to ask for an alternative. The Caldari reload bonus, which is a bonus the commandos already has, does little for a long range weapon. It fits in to sustained fire idea but in the wrong way and inappropriately for the current Rail tech. The Gallente bonus also need to be changed. Hipfire dispersion is only tied to two Gallente weapons and many could argue that hipfire dispersion isn't always a bad thing in CQC. The HMG "buff" which was an increase in dispersion is a perfect example of how dispersion makes some weapons more effective.
Looking at these two bonuses its clear the two hybrid weapon types in general needs to be addressed. Already there is likelihood of a Rail Rifle nerf, because it has the same DPS as a Plasma Rifle (yeah I'm using it too) with greater range and minimal drawback in CQC, the same problem can be seen with the new side arms, the ION pistol having the lowest range, DPS, and a charge ability not suitable for any sidearm with so little power. I also think it's fair to point out that since armor is more prevalent than shields and even in a balanced world will be Rail tech will continue to have an advantage in the DPS department, but that's not the point.
So my question to all is, assuming all hybrid weapons were balanced, so that Rails weren't as effective in CQC as Blasters,
what would be an appropriate bonus to compliment all Rail weapons (Magsec SMG, Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Rail Rifle) making them the ideal long range weapon, and what would be an appropriate bonus to compliment all Blaster weapons (Plasma Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Shotgun, Ion Pistol) to make them the ideal CQC weapon?
Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514
"No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
ACME Holding Conglomerate
653
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Posted - 2014.02.10 19:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
for galente id have to choose more ammo.
i dont want anything to increase dispersion or decrease it.
with the hmg we saw the dispersion increased and also an increase in rate of fire. this did make the hmg cqc effectiveness better over all. but i still find it to use up a lot of ammo to kill. at least around 200 or more in most cases. which is half its clip.
i also normally come across the same ammo problems when using my assault rifle.. to many times running out of ammo.
i dont want to see an increase in damage for them as i feel its damage output is fine.
for caldari i dont really know what id like to see from those. |
Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
441
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Posted - 2014.02.10 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Problem is that Racial Bonus in assaults are maded to "counter" the drawbacks of weapons and to avoid balance problem NEVER increase an advantage of a weapon.
Amarr problem : Heat up.
Minmatarr Problem : Mag are sometimes too low because their weapons is "Spray" weapons / Spam wepaons.
Gallente Problem : With his high RoF, sometimes a recoil can make miss an headshot and when it's a 750rpm it means missing 15 bullets at least.
Caldari Problem : ? Well the ONLY drawback of the RR is his long reload time it have NO drawbacks ?
That's why Caldari bonus is maybe "underdog" there's nothing to "counter" because RR has NO DRAWBACKS.
The only thing we could add....maybe....nah i don't know.
For Gallente well....More ammo would be cool but it needs something else. Maybe ammo AND reload time.
That would be useful for the three gallente weapon : Plasma cannon / Shotgun / Rifle. |
CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
ACME Holding Conglomerate
653
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Posted - 2014.02.10 19:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
im actually fine with its current reload speed. i just feel it needs more ammo. |
Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
182
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Posted - 2014.02.10 19:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Personally
Gallente: +2% damage per level to hybrid - blasters. If something isn't done to help it in CQC then it will be out performed by the CR having equal CQC ability plus additional range. I suggest a straight bonus to damage, hybrids are supposed to be the best CQC fighters by having the highest DPS with a modest ROF. The damage buff is limited though by the weapons short range.
Caldari: +5% per level bonus to hybrid - rail weapon effective range. It won't increase your effective range (where you deal max damage) but instead will increase the zone of which you can deal some damage at the longest possible range (lower DPS for more range, a Caldari style bonus). The Kaalakiota Rail Rifle would then have an optimal range of 78m with an effective range of 127.5m. |
CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
ACME Holding Conglomerate
654
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
i dont actually think we need to see a damage buff for the galente weaponry. im still able to kill most targets with my ar.
the problem on why it feels weak is just because the new guns happen to out shine it in total damage out put.
the burst cr could just have its refire rate slowed down some putting it at a slight disadvantage in the cqc area against the ar.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9009
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Posted - 2014.02.10 19:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Caldari: +3% optimal range of hybrid-rail weapons per level.
Gallente: +1% rate of fire & 5% ammo reserves of hybrid-blaster weapons per level.
Assuming the weapons are balance, I think these would go well.
The Minmatar bonus is indeed great, but the +1 explosive round per magazine is too much, needs to be changed to explosive blast radius.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1430
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think the reload bonus is better suited for the blaster weapons.
The rail weapons just do so much better overall I think any nerf could be appropriatly compensates with an Assault bonus.
Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514
"No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
189
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Caldari: +3% optimal range of hybrid-rail weapons per level.
Gallente: +1% rate of fire & 5% ammo reserves of hybrid-blaster weapons per level.
Assuming the weapons are balance, I think these would go well.
The Minmatar bonus is indeed great, but the +1 explosive round per magazine is too much, needs to be changed to explosive blast radius.
I'm not sure which would be more balanced for the Caldari, a bonus to optimal or effective ranges for railguns.
I was actually thinking Just a straight RoF bonus for Gallente, but maybe 2-3%. I don't know that all Gallente weapons really require the extra ammo that much.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1432
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Posted - 2014.02.10 21:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is one reason why I support an efficiency increase on defensive modules as well. Where as Caldari and Gallente have weaker bonuses here, shield extender and armor repair efficiancy might be favored over recharger and plate efficiency bonuses.
Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514
"No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
82
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Posted - 2014.02.11 00:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Caldari: +3% optimal range of hybrid-rail weapons per level.
Gallente: +1% rate of fire & 5% ammo reserves of hybrid-blaster weapons per level.
Assuming the weapons are balance, I think these would go well.
The Minmatar bonus is indeed great, but the +1 explosive round per magazine is too much, needs to be changed to explosive blast radius.
Absolutely not!
I've said it before, if you can't hit the broadside of a barn with a MD as is, you need to learn how to aim.
If the MD needs anything, than it's the ammo pool, especcially on assault suits, since they can't bring as much ammo as the logis.
Also this would reduce the amount of self serving compact nano carrying assault. They could instead bring useful stuff like uplinks or scanners. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
249
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Posted - 2014.02.11 01:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:im actually fine with its current reload speed. i just feel it needs more ammo.
we need more range. we use more ammo because the scope lets us shoot past our optimal range, where we do less damage and use more ammo. increase optimal range and youll noticed improved damage at range and less ammo consumption |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9015
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Posted - 2014.02.11 01:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Caldari: +3% optimal range of hybrid-rail weapons per level.
Gallente: +1% rate of fire & 5% ammo reserves of hybrid-blaster weapons per level.
Assuming the weapons are balance, I think these would go well.
The Minmatar bonus is indeed great, but the +1 explosive round per magazine is too much, needs to be changed to explosive blast radius. Absolutely not! I've said it before, if you can't hit the broadside of a barn with a MD as is, you need to learn how to aim. If the MD needs anything, than it's the ammo pool, especcially on assault suits, since they can't bring as much ammo as the logis. Also this would reduce the amount of self serving compact nano carrying assault. They could instead bring useful stuff like uplinks or scanners.
Its not a matter of whether the MD needs it or not to hit targets, its a matter of having bonuses that make light weapons the best in the hands of of their assault of common racial origin to enforce the role of assaults as an offensive class (so they will be better at assaulting than logis or basic mediums). Assault bonuses are supposed to enhance their race's weapon, and the mass driver is a Minmatar weapon, therefore the Minmatar assault bonus should enhance the mass driver.
Would you prefer 11 round per magazine mass drivers instead like CCP is planning?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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