DUST Search - IGÇÖll Put your redline ideas into a video

Teilka Darkmist wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

Red-lines should be giant Shield barriers extended from the Warbarge done in a very New Eden way. Being behind the shield barrier doesn't allow you to shoot out of it and or receive fire from within. Allowing red-lined teams to full respawn, call in appropriate vehicles and dropships, group up and push out of the red-line and gives that side a fighting chance to come back.

The shield should only allow one pass through, meaning once you leave the safety of the shield barrier it cannot recognize you independently and let you run back into the red-line. Because the red-line shield barrier wouldn't allow damage to pass through from either side it will also nullify a lot of the players who choose to spend 80% of their game time in the red-line not contributing to their team, or truly getting the New Eden Experience of competition in the battlefield as they are not fully on it.

Furthermore if you are in the red-line for 2 minutes+ they can just blanket kick everyone from the match... Stopping the AFK in a "safe area" that hurts both sides of competition. It's of course not the players fault they take advantage of this, the blame lies with it even being a viable option.

First, shields in New Eden don't work that way. They stop projectiles one way only, or else everything from mercs to titans wouldn't be able to shoot at anything.

One way redline doesn't work if you're trying to get a vehicle delivered sometimes. I've had a rail tank take out my LAV as soon as it's landed, before I had a chance to get in and speed away, the solution was to drop back into the redline and get the vehicle dropped there.

The idea of a redline timer, that auto kicks you if you're in it too long is not a bad one, until you take into account vehicle drop queues. If you get a couple of vehicles that take a few attempts to actually be dropped at the start of a queue, you can have most, if not all of the team getting kicked because the vehicle deploy is bugged.

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Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1450	Posted - 2014.02.08 22:15:00 - [1] - Quote I have been going through the forums recently and many players have issues with the redline and have ideas to fix it. So letGÇÖs help the developers as a community. You put your ideas, with enough detail and IGÇÿll take as many as is reasonable and add graphics, mock up some gameplay etc and put it into a video. This way we can make the ideas nice and central and easy for CCP to see and easy for others to understand. Full credit will of course go to the submitter with their names onscreen all the time I talk about their idea. Put your ideas to fix the redline in here and lets try nudge CCP along the way. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2037	Posted - 2014.02.08 22:17:00 - [2] - Quote Just do want MAG did. Make spawn areas super super easy to defend, then remove the redline. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 329	Posted - 2014.02.08 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Just do want MAG did. Make spawn areas super super easy to defend, then remove the redline. Out of all of the ideas going around Judge, something along the lines of what Fizzer94 says here seems to be the best I have heard. Give the teams some REAL sort of base that is very easy to defend and then remove or at least recede the red line.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9154	Posted - 2014.02.08 22:40:00 - [4] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Just do want MAG did. Make spawn areas super super easy to defend, then remove the redline. Whilst I partially approve of this idea, there should also be some preventative measure stopping overwhelming attackers from just farming people on their only spawn point. I think part of it is a game-mode issue. Even once you redline people on Skirmish, it can take a while before the match actualyl ends. The match is hopeless for one side after a short time of being 5-capped - yet it continues. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Teilka Darkmist 239	Posted - 2014.02.08 22:59:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I have been going through the forums recently and many players have issues with the redline and have ideas to fix it. So letGÇÖs help the developers as a community. You put your ideas, with enough detail and IGÇÿll take as many as is reasonable and add graphics, mock up some gameplay etc and put it into a video. This way we can make the ideas nice and central and easy for CCP to see and easy for others to understand. Full credit will of course go to the submitter with their names onscreen all the time I talk about their idea. Put your ideas to fix the redline in here and lets try nudge CCP along the way. Having just watched your redline rail video, I think you've hit on the best solution, alter the elevation of the rail tanks. That way we get rid of redline rails and I still get my easy countersniping targets. Win Win. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 527	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:00:00 - [6] - Quote Some sort of underground bunker/cave that you for lack of a better term teleprot out of to random areas nearby. If nobody leaves the bunker for an extended period of time a counter starts and if still nothing by the end of said counter the match is over. I only say underground to prevent orbital farming on redlined newbs. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1140	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:01:00 - [7] - Quote Red-lines should be giant Shield barriers extended from the Warbarge done in a very New Eden way. Being behind the shield barrier doesn't allow you to shoot out of it and or receive fire from within. Allowing red-lined teams to full respawn, call in appropriate vehicles and dropships, group up and push out of the red-line and gives that side a fighting chance to come back. The shield should only allow one pass through, meaning once you leave the safety of the shield barrier it cannot recognize you independently and let you run back into the red-line. Because the red-line shield barrier wouldn't allow damage to pass through from either side it will also nullify a lot of the players who choose to spend 80% of their game time in the red-line not contributing to their team, or truly getting the New Eden Experience of competition in the battlefield as they are not fully on it. Furthermore if you are in the red-line for 2 minutes+ they can just blanket kick everyone from the match... Stopping the AFK in a "safe area" that hurts both sides of competition. It's of course not the players fault they take advantage of this, the blame lies with it even being a viable option.
Teilka Darkmist 239	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:08:00 - [8] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Some sort of underground bunker/cave that you for lack of a better term teleprot out of to random areas nearby. If nobody leaves the bunker for an extended period of time a counter starts and if still nothing by the end of said counter the match is over. I only say underground to prevent orbital farming on redlined newbs. So you're saying smart deploy in all game modes? When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 239	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:14:00 - [9] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Red-lines should be giant Shield barriers extended from the Warbarge done in a very New Eden way. Being behind the shield barrier doesn't allow you to shoot out of it and or receive fire from within. Allowing red-lined teams to full respawn, call in appropriate vehicles and dropships, group up and push out of the red-line and gives that side a fighting chance to come back. The shield should only allow one pass through, meaning once you leave the safety of the shield barrier it cannot recognize you independently and let you run back into the red-line. Because the red-line shield barrier wouldn't allow damage to pass through from either side it will also nullify a lot of the players who choose to spend 80% of their game time in the red-line not contributing to their team, or truly getting the New Eden Experience of competition in the battlefield as they are not fully on it. Furthermore if you are in the red-line for 2 minutes+ they can just blanket kick everyone from the match... Stopping the AFK in a "safe area" that hurts both sides of competition. It's of course not the players fault they take advantage of this, the blame lies with it even being a viable option. First, shields in New Eden don't work that way. They stop projectiles one way only, or else everything from mercs to titans wouldn't be able to shoot at anything. One way redline doesn't work if you're trying to get a vehicle delivered sometimes. I've had a rail tank take out my LAV as soon as it's landed, before I had a chance to get in and speed away, the solution was to drop back into the redline and get the vehicle dropped there. The idea of a redline timer, that auto kicks you if you're in it too long is not a bad one, until you take into account vehicle drop queues. If you get a couple of vehicles that take a few attempts to actually be dropped at the start of a queue, you can have most, if not all of the team getting kicked because the vehicle deploy is bugged. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1142	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:18:00 - [10] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: Bethhy wrote: Red-lines should be giant Shield barriers extended from the Warbarge done in a very New Eden way. Being behind the shield barrier doesn't allow you to shoot out of it and or receive fire from within. Allowing red-lined teams to full respawn, call in appropriate vehicles and dropships, group up and push out of the red-line and gives that side a fighting chance to come back. The shield should only allow one pass through, meaning once you leave the safety of the shield barrier it cannot recognize you independently and let you run back into the red-line. Because the red-line shield barrier wouldn't allow damage to pass through from either side it will also nullify a lot of the players who choose to spend 80% of their game time in the red-line not contributing to their team, or truly getting the New Eden Experience of competition in the battlefield as they are not fully on it. Furthermore if you are in the red-line for 2 minutes+ they can just blanket kick everyone from the match... Stopping the AFK in a "safe area" that hurts both sides of competition. It's of course not the players fault they take advantage of this, the blame lies with it even being a viable option. First, shields in New Eden don't work that way. They stop projectiles one way only, or else everything from mercs to titans wouldn't be able to shoot at anything. One way redline doesn't work if you're trying to get a vehicle delivered sometimes. I've had a rail tank take out my LAV as soon as it's landed, before I had a chance to get in and speed away, the solution was to drop back into the redline and get the vehicle dropped there. The idea of a redline timer, that auto kicks you if you're in it too long is not a bad one, until you take into account vehicle drop queues. If you get a couple of vehicles that take a few attempts to actually be dropped at the start of a queue, you can have most, if not all of the team getting kicked because the vehicle deploy is bugged. You can extend the timer at the beginning of the match which is very acceptable. Yes shields do in New Eden....when you Go Into POS shields in EVE you can't shoot out or in... It acts as a rally point and place to form up and push out from. Personal shields are different sure... Half the problem for any team recovering is when you get Wiped from the map you never get a full 16 mercenaries back onto the battlefield even with the red-line as it is now... simply "dropping back" isn't an option on many different maps.

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9155	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:21:00 - [11] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: First, shields in New Eden don't work that way. They stop projectiles one way only, or else everything from mercs to titans wouldn't be able to shoot at anything. A pointless distinction. Lore is not a valid excuse for poor mechanics. As it happens, there already are shields in the lore that do this - There is a chronicle which references drone bays which work in this fashion. Quote: One way redline doesn't work if you're trying to get a vehicle delivered sometimes. I've had a rail tank take out my LAV as soon as it's landed, before I had a chance to get in and speed away, the solution was to drop back into the redline and get the vehicle dropped there. Is that not more of a problem with the call-in location or alternatively the rail tanks power projection? Quote: The idea of a redline timer, that auto kicks you if you're in it too long is not a bad one, until you take into account vehicle drop queues. If you get a couple of vehicles that take a few attempts to actually be dropped at the start of a queue, you can have most, if not all of the team getting kicked because the vehicle deploy is bugged. Vehicle deploy will not be bugged forever - and the solution to vehicle queues is simply to allow a fairly generous timer. With a long timer, there is plenty of time to deal with vehicle call ins and organising (though if you're spending several minutes in the redline at the start of the match you'll probably lose anyway) but it still prevents AFKing. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 302	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:24:00 - [12] - Quote I prefer bf3/4 approach natural barriers(hill, cliff, wall, tree line, big ******* mountain) that denies LOS into or out of home base. This barrier itself redlined to both teams blocks the attackers from shooting into the base prevents defenders from just camping high inaccessible ground. The is the issue that if it's implemented improperly that it can create easily exploitable choke points, but it should pretty much eliminate all issues with the redline. 32db Mad Bomber.
Onesimus Tarsus 1128	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:24:00 - [13] - Quote The red line should wash in and out like the tide. Stay in the deep part as it gets deeper and you die. You should glow like a lighthouse if you scope from the redline. There should be a v shaped divot in the redline that points right at the intruding particle. Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 527	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:46:00 - [14] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: Some sort of underground bunker/cave that you for lack of a better term teleprot out of to random areas nearby. If nobody leaves the bunker for an extended period of time a counter starts and if still nothing by the end of said counter the match is over. I only say underground to prevent orbital farming on redlined newbs. So you're saying smart deploy in all game modes? Oh you got me there, I forgot CCP Shanghai still can't random spawns right. So much for that plan. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Teilka Darkmist 239	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:47:00 - [15] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: First, shields in New Eden don't work that way. They stop projectiles one way only, or else everything from mercs to titans wouldn't be able to shoot at anything. A pointless distinction. Lore is not a valid excuse for poor mechanics. As it happens, there already are shields in the lore that do this - There is a chronicle which references drone bays which work in this fashion. Fair enough, I didn't know about POS shields, having never been interested in being in a Null Sec corp and I freely admit I haven't read all of the lore yet. Quote: One way redline doesn't work if you're trying to get a vehicle delivered sometimes. I've had a rail tank take out my LAV as soon as it's landed, before I had a chance to get in and speed away, the solution was to drop back into the redline and get the vehicle dropped there. Is that not more of a problem with the call-in location or alternatively the rail tanks power projection? Anywhere outside the redline, and even some places in it, are vulnerable to rail tank fire. True it doesn't apply in every match, but in some it does, so there needs to be somewhere for in those eventualities. Quote: The idea of a redline timer, that auto kicks you if you're in it too long is not a bad one, until you take into account vehicle drop queues. If you get a couple of vehicles that take a few attempts to actually be dropped at the start of a queue, you can have most, if not all of the team getting kicked because the vehicle deploy is bugged. Vehicle deploy will not be bugged forever - and the solution to vehicle queues is simply to allow a fairly generous timer. With a long timer, there is plenty of time to deal with vehicle call ins and organising (though if you're spending several minutes in the redline at the start of the match you'll probably lose anyway) but it still prevents AFKing. All I was saying here is that things like this have to be taken into account. Personally I think something like this timer should be applied to MCCs, but I have no problem about infantry being in the redline. It makes them think they're safe and makes them easy targets for me and my sniper rifle when I get close enough to actually be able to see them. That's why I think the solution that Judge Rhadamanthus suggested in his video is one of the best ideas I've heard. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2220	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:56:00 - [16] - Quote I think the terrain lines need to be consistent with the redlines. i.e. if you want to be inside the redline, the terrain will literally prevent you from shooting out of it. You have to climb over hills/mountains out of your redline in order to actually do anything, and trying to climb back over them to get back into your redline, the terrain should be steep enough to prevent people from doing that too. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4571	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:19:00 - [17] - Quote I would recommend some sort of hardened bunker with auto-turrets inside to kill enemy infantry that try to get in. If spawn zones have enough defense you don't need a massive redline just to stop people from getting spawn-camped. Maybe have a large structure about half the size of that "cargo pyramid" that allows the enemy to gather in force inside so that they can push out successfully even against a large number of enemies. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1450	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:23:00 - [18] - Quote here is one of my more "out there" ideas. Just throwing it out there to see where it goes. What if because of the easy to spot signature of a large rail gun, so only for rail turrets..... If you get a kill with a rail turret from the redline, an orbital comes down on you right away. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1175	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:52:00 - [19] - Quote Simple. Put a hill in the way. One hill is lower and protects the starting areas. Another hill is higher and in front of the lower hill. Between those two is where the redline ends. This could also be a gradual sloping of the terrain or buildings. A great example is the west side of Impact Ridge. If you head further west you go over a slight hill and then there is a building there. That would be a perfect example if you then have something higher in front of the hill or lower and blocking the building. This creates a no-man's land where the reds can run up and shoot at ppl on the redline but not hit ppl at the starting area and the snipers would have to go forward of the redline to see any of the battlefield. The starting areas would be in a lowland depression, behind a tunnel throughway or in a big facility. Another idea is to have two or even three starting areas to spawn into. And another idea, which would be a complex mechanic, would be to have the redline move back and forth across a whole portion of the map as objectives are captured. If A is the first point then once capped would open up the middle area of the map to B. For the enemy team to cap A they would have to cap B and then move forward. This would create an actual battleline and get rid of this merry go round ballet style combat that is happening now. Once larger maps exist (if ever) then this would serve to localize the battle around one objective, concentrate players on a definite goal and negate the need to travel around and around over larger distances. Objectives would then become more important, get more points for defending and hacking. The redlines would be close to the next objective that someone could ninja hack and get out if they have a scout suit and fast hack skills. Thus, scouts, snipers and tanks would have more of a reason to be in the mix. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!


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