DUST Search - 1.8 will be Heavy & Scout 514

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:

Assaults and Logis will be about as rare in 1.8 as a commando is in 1.7. I'm calling it now, DUST514 in 1.8 will be the equivalent of 'Supersize vs Super-Skinny', only instead of Supersized Mc Donalds meals and KFC Family Buckets for one vs Celery Sticks and Graham Crackers, we will see HMG's and Core Locust Grenades vs Breach Shoutguns and Remote Explosives.

I think you are wrong.

Med frames will always have an important place in the battlefield.
They are Balance.
They are versatility.
Scouts are fast and have cloaks.But have a limit to how much HP they can have. Not everybody can play successfully with 450 HP OR LESS.Everything sounds fancy until you think of a full enemy proto squad with Prroto scanners on gallente Logis vs you....
Heavies will be Damage sponges and powerful offensive behemoths,but they are fitted with the WORST of all E-war stuff. They will never detect anything besides near Shooting un-dampened Med frames and other heavies, while every single other personknows where they are at all times,which is, by definition in an FPS, the ultimate disadvantage.
MEd Frames will still be able to transform their suits to be the thing they need to be, from stealth ,to HP tanked.

From the Minmatar Assault with High speed and DAmage modded Combat rifle, To the HP tanked Cal and Gal Assaults, To the useless Amarr Assault that loyalist will still use for the lulz,to the Zerg Storm Summoning Amarr logi to the Flawless Radar Gallente Logi; i doubt MEd frames will dissapear....


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TYCHUS MAXWELL Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 10	Posted - 2014.02.08 22:56:00 - [1] - Quote "This thread reminds me of all the tanks are gonna be doomed!" Threads before 1.7 launched. IE, the community was aware of the specs but they either A) ignored the hardeners and passive hp bonuses thinking an extra 1000-2000 armor mattered without high resistance hardeners or B) were trolling the community. As much as I don't want to believe that CCP will go overboard, they are going to almost surely go overboard with the changes. The passive resistance on heavies is going to make them chew up medium suits. They will need healz! people naively say. You don't need heals on a heavy, I can run 6.8k isk heavy machine gun fits that can down quite a few people and chew up proto assaults/logis without reps and that's before the passive resistances are added. You don't have to have active repairs to kill more than you die in heavy suits, you just have to have a positive K/DR and you are well on your way to pulling your weight on your team if you are doing this at objectives. Light suits though pitiful at the moment I expect to see in 1.8 running around with militia shotguns and cloaks. Unless there is a huge delay between uncloaking and firing, players will just cloak right up to targets and make their rag doll fold in half. From what CCP has shared, the cloaks can last for many seconds which gives scouts plenty of time to sprint to a new target in cityscapes. If you think scout shottys are bad now, they will be a part of the FOTG along with any sort of heavy in 1.8. Its not hard to see when we do get the stats what is going to be overpowered, like that of Rail Rifles. People were likewise saying, well that .2 seconds is a big deal! Not big enough to ignore the massive effective range advantage over other rifles and the same damage as a freakin' breach assault rifle.
TYCHUS MAXWELL Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 10	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:17:00 - [2] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: I don't see it... That's ok, somehow people didn't see tanks514 either, when they were given much more speed, heavy resistance hardeners, and passive regen for armor tanks while giving shield tanks 2000 regen per second on actives, all while nerfing av across the board and there were constant tank QQ threads saying tanks were going to be unusable, because this community has the foresight of a mole. One thing I have learned about the community of this game since I started playing last summer. Most of the community didn't invest SP into arithmetic and game theory.
TYCHUS MAXWELL Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 10	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:25:00 - [3] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Assaults and Logis will be about as rare in 1.8 as a commando is in 1.7. I'm calling it now, DUST514 in 1.8 will be the equivalent of 'Supersize vs Super-Skinny', only instead of Supersized Mc Donalds meals and KFC Family Buckets for one vs Celery Sticks and Graham Crackers, we will see HMG's and Core Locust Grenades vs Breach Shoutguns and Remote Explosives. I think you are wrong. Med frames will always have an important place in the battlefield. They are Balance. They are versatility. Scouts are fast and have cloaks.But have a limit to how much HP they can have. Not everybody can play successfully with 450 HP OR LESS.Everything sounds fancy until you think of a full enemy proto squad with Prroto scanners on gallente Logis vs you.... Heavies will be Damage sponges and powerful offensive behemoths,but they are fitted with the WORST of all E-war stuff. They will never detect anything besides near Shooting un-dampened Med frames and other heavies, while every single other personknows where they are at all times,which is, by definition in an FPS, the ultimate disadvantage. MEd Frames will still be able to transform their suits to be the thing they need to be, from stealth ,to HP tanked. From the Minmatar Assault with High speed and DAmage modded Combat rifle, To the HP tanked Cal and Gal Assaults, To the useless Amarr Assault that loyalist will still use for the lulz,to the Zerg Storm Summoning Amarr logi to the Flawless Radar Gallente Logi; i doubt MEd frames will dissapear.... Oh no the proto logi that cost 80k+ isk just detected my 3k isk shotgun light dropsuit, woe is me imma die. Oh what's that? They lost 360 spinning and scanned in the wrong direction and are now on cooldown, dinner is served... Oh no I can't see the guys before they run to the objective I am covering with my heavy, oh wait I see one, dead...
TYCHUS MAXWELL Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 10	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:47:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Yes, let's all ignore the assault bonuses and logi bonuses and pretend heavies and scouts will be the next flavor of the month. i pretty much ignore them right now, they aren't big game changer and won't be later, a cloak and passive resistance on a tanky suit (That's % reduction which means the more shielding and armor aka a heavy suit the more effective EHP heavies will have). Who cares about rate of fire if your mag dump doesn't kill them/you can't see them. Game theory has to be approached from the bigger picture not this, "Well I can think of one way to counter this, that is ineffective against many other things." I know adv/proto forge guns can wreck militia tanks, this doesn't make tanks balanced towards av. I know sniper rifles and CQC can wreck a rail rifle some of the time, this doesn't make rail rifles balanced. I know you can outrange a combat rifle with a rail rifle/laser rifle/sniper rifle, this doesn't make combat rifles balanced. Balance is only achieved when weapons and suits have trade offs that make them relatively effective, imbalance occurs when the pros outweigh the cons to a strategy. Imbalance is what creates FOTM, why? Because it's simply more effective then other options, which from a game perspective wastes time spent on under powered assets and makes for a much more shallow game for the players. Hell this whole game currently is a pointless meta game. You can easily burn holes in the wallets of proto spam with gun game and thinking. Everyone though tries to race to proto gear so that they can lose money... Oh you went 32/2? Half those suits were frontline... and you made how much isk after losing 200k+ in suits? Oh but you need proto gear to get districts to farm isk in PC! Yeah but if you didn't spam proto gear you would never need to district farm in the first place. This whole game is a catch 22 competitively.