DUST Search - What if?

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

EVE has the idea that you train Sharpshooting, Surgical Strike, and Rapid Reloading to affect your Laser Weapons, Projectiles, or Hybrid Weaponry. I could see that working overall.

I don't know how to feel about the idea of training Hybrid Weaponry and getting access to shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles, and assault rifles. It does remove a whole heck of a lot of sinks to be able to use all those weapons of that type (Rail, Projectile, Blaster/Plasma, Energy) rather than go Rail Rifle, Caldari Shotgun, Bolt Pistol, and Sniper Rifle. However, making each racial variant be able to do close, medium, side arm, and far range with a single skill sort of removes the point of going into different race's dropsuits.

If all the racial types of weapons were put under a single roof (Rail Tech Weaponry gives access to every Caldari Weapon), what do I put my points into after I 'cap' out that role? With needing only Rail Tech Weaponry, Rail Tech Reloading, Rail Tech Proficiency, and Rail Tech Ammunition rather than quadruple that to master a Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Magsec SMG, and Sniper Rifle, people are going to cap very quickly to where extra SP doesn't do much.

3 million for a Suit, 4 million for the maxed weaponry, and then 2 million for the side skills. What does the Infantryman go for then? Going Minmatar doesn't matter too much as Caldari can do everything they can do anyway. If that is to be done, there would need to be a far greater emphasis of being a certain race; everyone needs to have a niche that is about on par with everyone else but that niche is powerful and important. That way, you actually give people reason to train into a new dropsuit rather than "I want to be an Armor Tanker now."

It is definitely a cleaner SP tree.

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12943	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:02:00 - [1] - Quote Working on my skill tree for the dust 514 2.0 project and this idea hit me. What if? We got rid of Sidearm, Light Arm, and Heavy Weapon trees chopped them down picked up the branches and glued them onto new trees. Plasma Tech Weaponry Rail Tech Weaponry Energy Tech Weaponry Projectile Tech Weaponry These skills would work towards unlocking specific types of classes in each one. Example lvl 1 unlocks service pistol assault rifle shotgun lvl 2 unlocks magnum pistol long rifle class SMG classes lvl 3 unlocks carbine heavy anti-infantry light av weapon classes lvl4 unlocks heavy av sniper classes lvl 5 unlocks tech 2 access Then merge common skills such as the following: Plasma Weaponry Reloading Projectile Weaponry Ammunition Reserves Energy Weaponry Heat Management Rail Weaponry Charge Cycling While specific weapons and skills remain the same Plasma Rifle Operation (no longer required to get basic but still unlocks advanced and prototype) increase optimal range per level. Plasma Rifle Sharpshooter - Decrease dispersion speed speed per level. Whole idea is to help cut down on confusion of what class of weapons are what. (this may require a shift and a need for a 5th tree though I rather see current weapons conform to their racials and leave explosives just for munitions type stuff and that explosives turns into a secondary type of damage similar to melee is) Reduce noise Reduce useless skills Increase SP value. Thoughts? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 729	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:09:00 - [2] - Quote I like where you are going with this. Can you clarify...how do you see perks laying out in the new skill tree? I'm very much not a fan of SP sinks purely for unlocks and really don't care for SP sinks that offer nothing for some levels. One addition...I would like if your race and/or dropsuit operation perks worked in conjunction with the proposed weapon tree redux. Example - Caldari get 5% decrease in SP costs to levels in Caldari primary tech such as rail weapon, suits, and nano circuitry (hives / needles). "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12944	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:12:00 - [3] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I like where you are going with this. Can you clarify...how do you see perks laying out in the new skill tree? I'm very much not a fan of SP sinks purely for unlocks and really don't care for SP sinks that offer nothing for some levels. One addition...I would like if your race and/or dropsuit operation perks worked in conjunction with the proposed weapon tree redux. Example - Caldari get 5% decrease in SP costs to levels in Caldari primary tech such as rail weapon, suits, and nano circuitry (hives / needles). Caldari race would likely start with rail tech weaponry to 3 already so they don't have to train it up. Skill discounts is probably much more work, effort and confusion than needed. Another possibility is a new true outside of unlocking weapons that could just affect ALL weapons. This can be dangerous though as it would empower veterans though and widen the sp gap too much. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Supra Advyn Nos Nothi 126	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:14:00 - [4] - Quote First, pass that joint over here, let me catch up... Then I will be in a better place as you are in regards to this wonderful diabolical thought that you are now pondering. :) If it boils down to confusion of weapons class, etc. Maybe a information hub is in order that is of more detailed orientated than what is currently offered, then go from there? hard to go step one to step 5 on a ladder at any incline. you should know by now....
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12944	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:16:00 - [5] - Quote Supra Advyn wrote: First, pass that joint over here, let me catch up... Then I will be in a better place as you are in regards to this wonderful diabolical thought that you are now pondering. :) If it boils down to confusion of weapons class, etc. Maybe a information hub is in order that is of more detailed orientated than what is currently offered, then go from there? hard to go step one to step 5 on a ladder at any incline. Yes but going from step 5 to negative one is a problem as is. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 73	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:18:00 - [6] - Quote complete support. Leave the weapon-specific trees for T2, if they every come out with a true T2. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12945	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:22:00 - [7] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: complete support. Leave the weapon-specific trees for T2, if they every come out with a true T2. Of course, specific weapons will keep their operational skills same goes for tech 2 when they unlock at level 5 and that tech 2 guns would draw bonuses from both tech 1 and tech 2 operational skills (and are sorta useless and underwhelming without the tech 1 near max) so it keeps in line with keeping the tree nice and linear. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2099	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:31:00 - [8] - Quote It would encourage racial fidelity, which i'm a fan of. CEO Fatal Absolution B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2782	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:34:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I like where you are going with this. Can you clarify...how do you see perks laying out in the new skill tree? I'm very much not a fan of SP sinks purely for unlocks and really don't care for SP sinks that offer nothing for some levels. One addition...I would like if your race and/or dropsuit operation perks worked in conjunction with the proposed weapon tree redux. Example - Caldari get 5% decrease in SP costs to levels in Caldari primary tech such as rail weapon, suits, and nano circuitry (hives / needles). Caldari race would likely start with rail tech weaponry to 3 already so they don't have to train it up. Skill discounts is probably much more work, effort and confusion than needed. Another possibility is a new true outside of unlocking weapons that could just affect ALL weapons. This can be dangerous though as it would empower veterans though and widen the sp gap too much. Sounds like a great Idea! This comes with the possibility of a Race Change if this happens right? I'm die hard Minmatar, but this accursed day 1 decision still haunts me to this day. I want my minmatar quarters.... Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 890	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:45:00 - [10] - Quote Wouldn't be fair to role players. Why should they invest more SP into their RR than we do for our Plasma Rifle? Every weapon class should be unlocked at the same rate. Rifles with Rifles. Pistols with pistols. SMGs with SMGs. Light AV with light AV and etc. Just my two iskies.

Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 890	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:46:00 - [11] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I like where you are going with this. Can you clarify...how do you see perks laying out in the new skill tree? I'm very much not a fan of SP sinks purely for unlocks and really don't care for SP sinks that offer nothing for some levels. One addition...I would like if your race and/or dropsuit operation perks worked in conjunction with the proposed weapon tree redux. Example - Caldari get 5% decrease in SP costs to levels in Caldari primary tech such as rail weapon, suits, and nano circuitry (hives / needles). Caldari race would likely start with rail tech weaponry to 3 already so they don't have to train it up. Skill discounts is probably much more work, effort and confusion than needed. Another possibility is a new true outside of unlocking weapons that could just affect ALL weapons. This can be dangerous though as it would empower veterans though and widen the sp gap too much. Sounds like a great Idea! This comes with the possibility of a Race Change if this happens right? I'm die hard Minmatar, but this accursed day 1 decision still haunts me to this day. I want my minmatar quarters.... I want my Gallente quarters, but I got a minmatar one. Wut?
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 899	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:48:00 - [12] - Quote Sure, then you specialize in each weapon/system/class, like Eve. I could get behind this. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 3 Gêå1; Other DS: 31 Gêå2; Tanks: 33 Gêå2 2/2
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 647	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:50:00 - [13] - Quote honestly i dont like the idea. it just sounds like 2 big of an sp sink. and as ive placed lots of sp into many different weapons that belong to several different races its pretty understandable. something like this just seems 2 troublesome. im fine with the current skill tree system.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 705	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:55:00 - [14] - Quote I like it. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? THAT SENTENCE HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES! APOLOGIZE!
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 460	Posted - 2014.02.07 23:08:00 - [15] - Quote EVE has the idea that you train Sharpshooting, Surgical Strike, and Rapid Reloading to affect your Laser Weapons, Projectiles, or Hybrid Weaponry. I could see that working overall. I don't know how to feel about the idea of training Hybrid Weaponry and getting access to shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles, and assault rifles. It does remove a whole heck of a lot of sinks to be able to use all those weapons of that type (Rail, Projectile, Blaster/Plasma, Energy) rather than go Rail Rifle, Caldari Shotgun, Bolt Pistol, and Sniper Rifle. However, making each racial variant be able to do close, medium, side arm, and far range with a single skill sort of removes the point of going into different race's dropsuits. If all the racial types of weapons were put under a single roof (Rail Tech Weaponry gives access to every Caldari Weapon), what do I put my points into after I 'cap' out that role? With needing only Rail Tech Weaponry, Rail Tech Reloading, Rail Tech Proficiency, and Rail Tech Ammunition rather than quadruple that to master a Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Magsec SMG, and Sniper Rifle, people are going to cap very quickly to where extra SP doesn't do much. 3 million for a Suit, 4 million for the maxed weaponry, and then 2 million for the side skills. What does the Infantryman go for then? Going Minmatar doesn't matter too much as Caldari can do everything they can do anyway. If that is to be done, there would need to be a far greater emphasis of being a certain race; everyone needs to have a niche that is about on par with everyone else but that niche is powerful and important. That way, you actually give people reason to train into a new dropsuit rather than "I want to be an Armor Tanker now." It is definitely a cleaner SP tree.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 864	Posted - 2014.02.07 23:09:00 - [16] - Quote i would support this idea. so for example for minmatar it would be something like this... projectile weapons operation: -combat rifle at lvl 1 -smg at lvl 1 -HMG at lvl 3 explosive weapons operation: mass driver at lvl 3 flaylock at lvl 2 just for example, if so then i would like this Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Damian Crisis Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 39	Posted - 2014.02.07 23:09:00 - [17] - Quote I too like it! This is actually the way it should be. It's very EVEish. My Shotgun says, "FUCK YOU, Go to sleep!"
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 434	Posted - 2014.02.07 23:25:00 - [18] - Quote Yes. It just makes sense. AR Dmg: 34, RoF: 750 RPM, DPS: 425, RR Dmg: 55, RoF: 461 RPM, DPS: 422, + double the range. Balanced.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12952	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:47:00 - [19] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: EVE has the idea that you train Sharpshooting, Surgical Strike, and Rapid Reloading to affect your Laser Weapons, Projectiles, or Hybrid Weaponry. I could see that working overall. I don't know how to feel about the idea of training Hybrid Weaponry and getting access to shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles, and assault rifles. It does remove a whole heck of a lot of sinks to be able to use all those weapons of that type (Rail, Projectile, Blaster/Plasma, Energy) rather than go Rail Rifle, Caldari Shotgun, Bolt Pistol, and Sniper Rifle. However, making each racial variant be able to do close, medium, side arm, and far range with a single skill sort of removes the point of going into different race's dropsuits. If all the racial types of weapons were put under a single roof (Rail Tech Weaponry gives access to every Caldari Weapon), what do I put my points into after I 'cap' out that role? With needing only Rail Tech Weaponry, Rail Tech Reloading, Rail Tech Proficiency, and Rail Tech Ammunition rather than quadruple that to master a Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Magsec SMG, and Sniper Rifle, people are going to cap very quickly to where extra SP doesn't do much. 3 million for a Suit, 4 million for the maxed weaponry, and then 2 million for the side skills. What does the Infantryman go for then? Going Minmatar doesn't matter too much as Caldari can do everything they can do anyway. If that is to be done, there would need to be a far greater emphasis of being a certain race; everyone needs to have a niche that is about on par with everyone else but that niche is powerful and important. That way, you actually give people reason to train into a new dropsuit rather than "I want to be an Armor Tanker now." It is definitely a cleaner SP tree. As I stated each weapon will be still retain operation to help increase its effectiveness and there would be a reduced amount of specific supporting skills for each weapon. Then of course this is to make room for tech 2 weaponry as well. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 483	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:53:00 - [20] - Quote That is actually a really good idea. +1 to you. Could we also get this for suits? We want cake and tea.

One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 300	Posted - 2014.02.08 01:04:00 - [21] - Quote I think its a great idea. This scout thanks you CCP!!!
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1542	Posted - 2014.02.08 01:50:00 - [22] - Quote Would support on the condition of no SP sinks, all skills should have value to them aside from just opening up other skills. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 732	Posted - 2014.02.08 02:09:00 - [23] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Would support on the condition of no SP sinks, all skills should have value to them aside from just opening up other skills. That's pretty much where I'm at as well. Also, for clarification, the current system is not bad - clearly some areas need shoring up (such as SP sink for no benefits) but it's certainly not broken either. I do like how IWS cleans up the system a bit and potentially makes way for T2 equipment approaches. The biggest opportunity I see is racial synergy. Make race matter a little or barring that have skill sets and weapons / equipment / suits have some advantages in working together if they fall into a primary racial category. This is a pretty similar concept in several MMO games...I.e. For every piece of armor or weapon from X suite of gear you get a small bump in a perk. Ps...not intending to threadjack you IWS, your idea was very interesting and started a stream of consciousness. Kudos. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12957	Posted - 2014.02.08 02:30:00 - [24] - Quote Of course the skills will all be useful, if the blanket skill isnt enough then the subskill for the weapon will pick up (and stack) with the class skills. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 90	Posted - 2014.02.08 08:02:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Working on my skill tree for the dust 514 2.0 project and this idea hit me. What if? We got rid of Sidearm, Light Arm, and Heavy Weapon trees chopped them down picked up the branches and glued them onto new trees. Plasma Tech Weaponry Rail Tech Weaponry Energy Tech Weaponry Projectile Tech Weaponry These skills would work towards unlocking specific types of classes in each one. Example lvl 1 unlocks service pistol assault rifle shotgun lvl 2 unlocks magnum pistol long rifle class SMG classes lvl 3 unlocks carbine heavy anti-infantry light av weapon classes lvl4 unlocks heavy av sniper classes lvl 5 unlocks tech 2 access Then merge common skills such as the following: Plasma Weaponry Reloading Projectile Weaponry Ammunition Reserves Energy Weaponry Heat Management Rail Weaponry Charge Cycling While specific weapons and skills remain the same Plasma Rifle Operation (no longer required to get basic but still unlocks advanced and prototype) increase optimal range per level. Plasma Rifle Sharpshooter - Decrease dispersion speed speed per level. Whole idea is to help cut down on confusion of what class of weapons are what. (this may require a shift and a need for a 5th tree though I rather see current weapons conform to their racials and leave explosives just for munitions type stuff and that explosives turns into a secondary type of damage similar to melee is) Reduce noise Reduce useless skills Increase SP value. Thoughts? Discuss? Debate? im kinda likeing the idea but that means i would have to go to 4 to get both my wepons not likeing tht too much but then again i already have to go to four so screww it it could also emphisise specialization rather than wasteful "jack of all trades" yes i scream KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA when i forge muthafuckas the Turtle Hermit: Professional Heavy
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 485	Posted - 2014.02.08 18:38:00 - [26] - Quote Turtle Hermit Roshi wrote: im kinda likeing the idea but that means i would have to go to 4 to get both my wepons not likeing tht too much but then again i already have to go to four so screww it it could also emphisise specialization rather than wasteful "jack of all trades" Actually, it'll encourage racial specialization whilst becoming more of a jack-of-all-trades within that race as you'd get a more diverse selection of weapons from the one skill tree. Also, being a jack-of-all-trades is a lot better than pure specialization into one role. Sure, you'll be better at that one role than a jack of all trades guy but if someone else has a counter to your specialization, you'll be screwed. Whereas a jack-of-all-trades can just change their fit and tactics to counter anything on the battlefield at a competent level. We want cake and tea.
Onesimus Tarsus 1120	Posted - 2014.02.08 19:05:00 - [27] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: That is actually a really good idea. +1 to you. Could we also get this for suits? I think suits should all start out as naked light frames with everything else (secondary and tertiary layers for med and hev frames) tacked on, and racial bonuses/appearances applied last, but as a mandate. Also, you should get bonuses for shopping inside your racial group, and LP bonuses as well for FW inside your racial group. So, you start out with the wetsuit. You can stop there and begin making it a scout, or slap on your second layer and go Med frame, with the Hev layer costing a good bit less, but mandates the first two layers. The suit won't build without the racial finish, and a bonus ensues from that finish. If more than half your fitment is sourced from your racial tech, you get some specific racial bonus that increases with racial fidelity. Thus, a "pure" racial suit gets maximum specific bonus at the cost of inflexibility, and flexible rigs sacrifice racial bonuses for the joy of being a mutt. Free, on-demand Respecs. Because it doesn't matter and no one should care. Matchmaking by KDR proximity. :)


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