DUST Search - Confessions of a slayer logi

Komodo Jones wrote:

The Infected One wrote:

Komodo Jones wrote:

I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers.

I personally still believe that it will be the latter of the two. The" KDR>all" mentality in FPS games will always stay, and thus the assault roles will always inevitably continue to chase the kill, even at their own doom.
It might even just end up hurting the logi's to the point where they become almost non existent, picking up a scout suit for the 2 equip and mobility to get out when the assaults get overrun.

I'm thinking this is why all of this "nerf the logies" bs is out there, seems like there are alot of people who just what their suit to be remarkably better than logies so they can get an easier kill, my goal here is to level the playing field or at least blur the lines, I don't want 1 suit to be clearly better I want either all suits to be on level playing field and let the skill of the player decide the outcome, or to have a "rock paper scissors" setup where you can be as good as you want but there will still be something else that's your bane, your weakness, that you need help dealing with, THAT'S what promotes teamwork, mutual necessity, not some one directional crap.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 618	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:04:00 - [1] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: if the goal is to make logistics suits oriented more towards defense than offense ... uh, no.. the goal should be to make logistics suits STAY THE out of combat!! Do you know what the definition of a "support" role is, in pretty much any other game? A "support" role, is a role which "supports" other players who do the actual killing. If a logi is getting a majority of its points... or even just a significant fraction of its points... from killing.. then it isnt particularly fitting a support role. Similarly, if most logi players are getting a large chunk of their points from killing, then there is something wrong with the design of the suit. Hopefully, the changes coming in 1.8 will fix the current design flaws. We will see how far you get as a straight assault player when your logi has been nerfed into the ground to the point that they cant even defend themselves and die as soon as you go down because they cant clear the area and pick you up, or they die first and you run out of ammo, need reps, or a scan, or god forbid some backup because most of the assault players tend to run off solo on a "Must kill that one that ran away" mission and end up getting swarmed. I ran straight assault from E3 build, dabbled in the other suits, and came to the conclusion on my own that playing as a more combat oriented logistics unit suited my play style in chrome. I can kill almost as effectively as an assault (This is mostly due to having good gun game and experience in FPS games), and support said assault based players while doing it. Keep in mind, I can kill just as effectively as an assault in a scout suit due to faster movement, so should scouts be nerfed even more so the assaults do all the actual "assaulting"? I don't stack damage mods, I stack shields on highs, armor/reps/ and hacking mods on the lows, so that I can stay alive, and grab the objectives while the "Assault" based classes can watch my ass while I do my job, and what do 90% of the random assault players do? They ******* run off in search of the next kill to up their precious KDR and leave the guy who is actually doing his job as a "Support" player to die. I've taken off my needle and rep tool from my suits when running solo because 90% of the assaults just re-spawn as soon as they die, and don't watch their HP and back off for reps when they are low. Instead I'll set up camp with uplinks, hives, RE's, and a scanner and just hold a point where its actually SAFE for idiot single track minded assault players to continually die and re-spawn, and every so often come back for ammo. I still get more kills because dumb red assaults do the exact same thing (run in without looking around), and your stupid ass is constantly re-spawning on my link only to run out and die again, getting me more WP. It makes it really hard for us to do our jobs when you guys don't do yours, or don't bother to watch your own damn ammo reserves or health bars, hell most of the time were the ones having to run in and kill the guy you were trying to kill so that we can pick your stupid asses up because you just run in without thinking about how you are going to approach the situation. If you are so single minded that you actually believe that the assault classes should be the only ones that can kill effectively, your playing a TEAM based game wrong. Minmatar combat logi till the end. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 623	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:28:00 - [2] - Quote Its more an issue that we HAVE to do it all ourselves, because the rest of the blue population has this "I must get all the kills" mentality, so naturally we pick the suit and build it so that we can. It really isn't that the logi is too good, the logi is pretty much the only suit that is built properly to fill its role. The other suits are too bad and filling theirs. If they hadn't taken away my 2nd equipment slot from my proto assault suit, I would still be running assault. I have always been an advocate of removing a logis ability to even put damage mods on their suits, but that brings into question of what else does one fit? There aren't really any good logistics based mods for high slots right now, so as a logi its either shields or damage. Passive scan range is a joke for a suit that only has a 10m range base, and leaves us squishy as a marshmallow. (Great, I can see the shotgunner on my radar as he takes my head off..yay) "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 623	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:39:00 - [3] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers. I personally still believe that it will be the latter of the two. The" KDR>all" mentality in FPS games will always stay, and thus the assault roles will always inevitably continue to chase the kill, even at their own doom. It might even just end up hurting the logi's to the point where they become almost non existent, picking up a scout suit for the 2 equip and mobility to get out when the assaults get overrun. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 627	Posted - 2014.02.04 00:03:00 - [4] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: The Infected One wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers. I personally still believe that it will be the latter of the two. The" KDR>all" mentality in FPS games will always stay, and thus the assault roles will always inevitably continue to chase the kill, even at their own doom. It might even just end up hurting the logi's to the point where they become almost non existent, picking up a scout suit for the 2 equip and mobility to get out when the assaults get overrun. I'm thinking this is why all of this "nerf the logies" bs is out there, seems like there are alot of people who just what their suit to be remarkably better than logies so they can get an easier kill, my goal here is to level the playing field or at least blur the lines, I don't want 1 suit to be clearly better I want either all suits to be on level playing field and let the skill of the player decide the outcome, or to have a "rock paper scissors" setup where you can be as good as you want but there will still be something else that's your bane, your weakness, that you need help dealing with, THAT'S what promotes teamwork, mutual necessity, not some one directional crap. Exactly. I still think that simply removing the logis ability to put damage mods on their suits would totally solve the problem, but there really still aren't enough high slot items to give options to the players. I don't know why they are high slots in DUST anyway, aren't they low slots in EVE? That though still makes the shield suits out perform the armor suits because that would just flip what we have now with armor tanking and stacking damage, thus still keeping such an imbalance in suits. I think right now all we can do as logis is wait for 1.8 and see what CCP does to the damage mods (I've seen good things pointing toward different types of damage mods ((ex. at proto lvl: One type of damage mod that gives 10% increased damage to shields, one that gives 10% to armor, and one that gives 5% to shields as well as 5% to armor) to create a less "Blanket effect" and a more specialized role towards how the weapon performs), and hope that they don't totally ruin the whole logi role. Keeping the logi suits how they are, and buffing the others to a point that they are more clearly defined in their role to me seems like the logical approach. Logis should be a jack of all trades, master of none to the point that the other suits have a clear advantage in their intended role on the field and that even a combat oriented logistics unit should still compete with but not out perform a straight slayer suit, and thus stay within the "Support" role. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 632	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:02:00 - [5] - Quote I saw one post suggesting that suits get a bonus to their racial weapon, this would be a great bonus for the assaults, it would give them that edge over the logi suits, and give actual meaning into what race you chose to play, much like the upcoming change to the logi suits where we get a bonus to our racial equipment. The coward Caldari could sit at a safe distance and plink away at everything. The space **** loving Aamar could continue to have laser light show raves (LR still needs to be fixed and brought back to a useful weapon), and scrambler discos. It could actually bring the short sighted Gallente (4 eyes joke) AR back into its intended blaster role. The mighty Minmatar could still be great with the whole hit and run game. It would be a better bonus than a blanket ROF increase for the assault suits (increased ROF + ACR anyone?) and would make them better slayers with their respective weapons. It would also help to curb this plague of MLT heavy frames with proto RR stuff that we see going on, because the assaults would get a bonus to their racial weapons, and make them more appealing to players that just want to run assault. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 638	Posted - 2014.02.04 20:17:00 - [6] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: something like cooldown and heat building for amarr, increased rate of fire for caldari, increase range for gallente, and...idk what for minmatar, I'm basing this off of weapon weaknesses and I've never found something wrong with minnie weapons lol, wider blast radius? Tighter spread? Reload speed or max ammo?. I would personally like to see an increase in max ammo per mag/clip as a Minmatar bonus, with all of our natural high ROF weapons (CR, SMG, Flaylock, HMG, (Not so much the mass driver lol can you imagine a 400 RPM AMD lmao) an increased clip size would help out a lot in an engaged firefight against something with higher individual strike damage)) It could make Minmatar weapons totally OP though, would have to be done carefully. Reload speed aside from the HMG could be OP because the CR has around 2.5 or something (I don't have the game sitting in front of me right now) as it is, so 25% faster reload speed from the skill, and then another 25% lets say for arguments sake from the assault bonus would bring reload down to 1.25 sec, why switch weapons when it takes that long to switch anyway? Tighter spread...The CR and SMG already have those skills in their own trees, so again stacking that on could kind of break the game in the sense that the weapons could be far too accurate from hip fire. Edit: Blast radius, maybe not because we don't want the flaylock and MD to become the primary OP fire and forget weapons that they used to be. Although the bonus to damage modifier % per level would still be an alright one considering that our assaults are the hit and run specialists, 1 complex mod would in effect turn into 1 complex and one basic at lvl 5. Perhaps a bonus to shield regeneration or regen delay since again we are the hit and run specialists? It would allow the assault to get into cover, get the shields back, and get back into another fight. It's not like were regenerating our shields at 35/pulse like the current Caldari assaults. I believe that we max out with the current skill bonus at around 25/pulse, and have far lower shielding than the Cal assault. Even a blanket kind of movement speed increase (Movement and sprint) per level for the Minmatar Assault would be helpful for our hit and run style, and give our assaults an actual fighting chance to pull it off. (Even matching the minni scout speed at lvl 5 would be alright since we have a larger hit box, profile, lower scan precision and only 2 lows at proto level.) "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 642	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:06:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: How did you make the conclusion that the Logi Repair bonus = 2 complex armor repair modules? Or did you mean STD/ADV? To whom are you speaking, good sir? I'll be dropping a hacking mod, and adding a complex rep mod for the 6.25/sec armor rep since they are getting rid of the Logi's natural 5/sec armor rep, and my Minmatar Logi is no longer receiving the hacking bonus. I never came to any conclusion that the rep bonus was 2 complex rep mods. The current purposed Min Assault bonus is a 5% to damage mod effectiveness per level, that would put the current complex damage mod of 10% up to 12.5% for the first damage mod, which is in just under what you would get from stacking 1 complex (10%) and one basic (3% + the stacking penalty) given that the stacking penalty for your 2nd damage mod is roughly 87% of the 2nd mods bonus given. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 657	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:40:00 - [8] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: I just meant total ammo, not in the clip, but that's boring and clip size would be better if done carefully, but yeah I didn't think about instead of a weapon bonus having something that makes the suits more capable, faster self repair or more speed would be great. All weapons already have ammo capacity, but wouldn't it be cool to have 600 in reserve for the CR and SMG lol Supply depot? Pffft, who needs it. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 657	Posted - 2014.02.04 23:37:00 - [9] - Quote I think that one of the biggest issues, and one that gives the ability to totally tank the logies is that there is no requirement to fill all, if any of the equipment slots. That, with the large amount of CPU and PG that we are given lends even a basic suit the ability to stack complex mods and weapons to great effect. Another issue is the fact that we can stack damage mods at all, with really not much of a penalty. 100% for the first, 87% for the 2nd, 56% (Roughly) for the 3rd, 23% for the 4th, and around 10% for the 5th. Granted that the 4th and 5th aren't really doing anything except eating up CPU and PG, it still adds up in the long run and they don't eat up enough CPU and PG to cover not having to fit any equipment to make the suit valid. All we have to do to make a suit valid is slap a weapon on it. Period. If the logi had to fill all their equipment slots to make a valid suit, it would help a bunch against tanking armor and damage and just running slayer, even if all you put on were basic things, it still eats up CPU and PG, and adds to the total suit cost. There really aren't many options for high slot mods that are useful, so it generally boils down to either tank or damage, this is another issue that CCP should address. We were given a large CPU and PG pool for a reason, and it wasn't intended to be to stack on just health and damage. Maybe only allowing the Logi to use a side arm is a good idea, but then I'll still just throw on either a proto scrambler pistol and 3 shot most suits with maxed out prof while hiding behind a heavy, or throw a proto SMG on and melt guys from almost the same range as the standard AR with higher DPS. CCP designed a sandbox for us and said "Go play", so we did. It didn't take long before people realized that the logi suit was the most versatile suit in the game because there are no set ground rules as to how you have to have your suit set up. I ran assault until Chrome, but I always looked at the logi thinking "Wow, I can do so much more with that suit" all the while not making the switch because my Proto assault had 2 equipment slots, and that's all I needed, one for hives, one for RE's. Then CCP changed that on us. They took away the equip slot because people bitched about assaults filling the logi role, we still had team view, so if I was running low on ammo I could just look at the mini map and find my way around the red dots to the closest supply depot, or hive to re-supply. Then they took away team view and gave us scanners. (Which now is basically team view via equipment) They gave us contact grenades, and the firearms took a back seat, everyone was just spamming hives and throwing grenades, the logies took advantage of this and started fitting 3-4 hives on their suits, because more hives = more grenades = longer survivability and more kills. "What light weapon?" I, like many of my corp mates switched to the logi role because now we couldn't always find ammo for our assaults, grenade spam was at its prime and if you didn't have hives, you were dead to the red guy that was standing on his spamming contact grenades. Then came the explosives. Ah it was beautiful, EXPLOSIONS everywhere. Mass driver, flaylock, contact grenades, RE's. Everyone died. A LOT! So naturally uplinks were required, who can fit uplinks and hives, and an explosive weapon, and grenades? LOGIES CAN! So even more people started running logi suits, people got used to brick tanking their logi suits against all of these high damage AOE weapons. CCP nerfed the explosives. Everyone was already used to not having a side arm, brick tanking, and having all the equipment that they could handle. Spamming links and hives so they would never be out of the fight for too long, and never run out of ammo. During all of this one thing never changed. The suits. people realized that the other suits were simply underwhelming in comparison, they no longer filled their intended roles on the battle field because "Hey, need to do something yourself? grab a logi suit, put what you need on it, go to town." boldThis brings me to my actual long winded pointbold. At this period in time as we are playing this game, we have gotten used to having everything we could ever want at our fingertips because CCP let us, and like true creatures of habit, molded by our environment, the logi suit is clearly the winner in every category. look at the logic behind it if you will, a full team of 16 logi suits (Doesn't matter which race) running with all their equipment and weapons, in any and every variation that you can think of will clearly overshadow any other team you can try and build. Why? Because CCP lets us build our suits that way. There are no restrictions on what you have to fit to your suit." Its our sandbox, were playing, don't touch my bucket, but give me your shovel." IF CCP decides now that "This has gone far enough" and nerfs the logi suits into the ground, how many people do you think are going to stick around? How many are still going to try and fill that support role? Personally, I'll go scout and heavy, because they offer damage reduction as a heavy, and the scout gives me mobility, stealth, 2 equipment, a side arm slot, and enough high and low slots to play with and find a sweet spot that I can perform another "Jack of all trades, master of none" role. Once other people start catching on (No I'm not acting like I invented it) and it starts to flourish, this whole argument will start over again, just Insert new suit name here. The logi suits aren't REALLY the problem. They have the CPU/PG, and slots to make them efficient in the slayer role, hacker, support, stealth, and tank positions. Not because they are simply OP. They are only OP because the other suits whose roles they are filling are incredibly UP and lackluster at performing their own specific task. This game NEEDS balance, its not TF2. Bring the other suits up to par. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? THAT SENTENCE HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES! APOLOGIZE!