DUST Search - Red lines are good for DUST...

lithkul devant wrote:

Grit Breather wrote:

And here's why.

They enable cooperative team play.
They help new players not get hurt.
Without them there would be chaos.
All those foxes out there are scary.

To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots.

Thoughts?

Discuss!

*Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle you can not hit them except if you are willing to suicide a dropship.
*Allows for tanks with railguns to be near godly
*Allows for afk farming, especially in the mcc
*Provides to much of a safety zone and no reason to leave it when you are loosing or to even fight when loosing.
*Discourages using realistic tactics in order to counter the enemy, why bother when you have the godly redline.

Redlines would be far less needed if

1. Their was an option for team surrender
2. If not reaching the objective after a certain number of minutes your team looses.
3. Orbitals also did team damage instead of friendly fire off. On all game modes.
4. The tutorial for new players was better.

Many other reasons could be listed or ways to handle this, but in short the redline is a only taking away the attetnion from the true problems in the game. Though your picture was quite accurate in many ways.

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Grit Breather Cannonfodder PMC 1009	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:20:00 - [1] - Quote And here's why. They enable cooperative team play. They help new players not get hurt. Without them there would be chaos. All those foxes out there are scary. To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots. Thoughts? Discuss! "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Asterion Cretos DUST University Ivy League 100	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:23:00 - [2] - Quote Looks more like food to me than bluedots. Mmmm, chicken I would rather die my way than live by yours.
Grit Breather Cannonfodder PMC 1009	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:26:00 - [3] - Quote Asterion Cretos wrote: Looks more like food to me than bluedots. Mmmm, chicken Is there really a difference? Really? We all know the AI in this single player (endless) campaign called DUST 514 is bad. Have you ever been in a single mission where the blueberry AI was better than the redberry AI? Clearly the campaign was balanced around antiquated concepts of just making it hard for the player to advance. That's why none of us has ever unlocked any of the achievements. "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 2790	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:26:00 - [4] - Quote Until an OB drops and gets 16 kills. Redlines are only good if they aren't promoting feeding, which they are currently. The ability to call OBs in a redline is absurd and should be removed. Shield Recommendations
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:28:00 - [5] - Quote Grit Breather wrote: And here's why. They enable cooperative team play. They help new players not get hurt. Without them there would be chaos. All those foxes out there are scary. To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots. Thoughts? Discuss! Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle you can not hit them except if you are willing to suicide a dropship. Allows for tanks with railguns to be near godly Allows for afk farming, especially in the mcc Provides to much of a safety zone and no reason to leave it when you are loosing or to even fight when loosing. *Discourages using realistic tactics in order to counter the enemy, why bother when you have the godly redline.
Grit Breather Cannonfodder PMC 1009	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:29:00 - [6] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Until an OB drops and gets 16 kills. Redlines are only good if they aren't promoting feeding, which they are currently. The ability to call OBs in a redline is absurd and should be removed. It's all those red foxes calling in OB. I personally blame increased urbanisation and the loss of natural habitats. Red foxes just can't hunt without OBs anymore. "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Grit Breather Cannonfodder PMC 1009	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:34:00 - [7] - Quote @lithkul devant I understand your reasoning. Let me reply to each in turn. lithkul devant wrote: Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle you can not hit them except if you are willing to suicide a dropship. How else is a chicken supposed to defend itself from a fox? Foxes must make sacrifices to feed their family with that hard earned WP. lithkul devant wrote:* Allows for tanks with railguns to be near godly Arguably an issue. I'd personally question the laws allowing farmers to train chickens with tanks. lithkul devant wrote:* Allows for afk farming, especially in the mcc Well, I need my breakfast and a chicken sure won't lay anything under fire. lithkul devant wrote:* Provides to much of a safety zone and no reason to leave it when you are loosing or to even fight when loosing. Perhaps this is true. I would like to see balance brought back to the fox-chicken conflict. lithkul devant wrote:* *Discourages using realistic tactics in order to counter the enemy, why bother when you have the godly redline. For this I blame capitalism. "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 268	Posted - 2014.02.02 22:14:00 - [8] - Quote Without redlines people would be kicked from the game for not spawning and moving around. Protostomp is bad now? Remove the barrier that only occasionally keeps that group of bears from walking into your spawnpoints. It would go from a slaughter to grocery shopping without even letting the flock reach the butcher. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1790	Posted - 2014.02.02 22:22:00 - [9] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Grit Breather wrote: And here's why. They enable cooperative team play. They help new players not get hurt. Without them there would be chaos. All those foxes out there are scary. To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots. Thoughts? Discuss! Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle you can not hit them except if you are willing to suicide a dropship. Allows for tanks with railguns to be near godly Allows for afk farming, especially in the mcc Provides to much of a safety zone and no reason to leave it when you are loosing or to even fight when loosing. Discourages using realistic tactics in order to counter the enemy, why bother when you have the godly redline. Redlines would be far less needed if 1. Their was an option for team surrender 2. If not reaching the objective after a certain number of minutes your team looses. 3. Orbitals also did team damage instead of friendly fire off. On all game modes. 4. The tutorial for new players was better. Many other reasons could be listed or ways to handle this, but in short the redline is a only taking away the attetnion from the true problems in the game. Though your picture was quite accurate in many ways. I disagree with points 1,2 and 3 entirely. 1) While it would prehaps contain stomping, as soon as a few people decide they have had enough they vote for a team surrender. 6 people later and the team 'gives up' so the 10 people who were still enjoying and playing the game now kicked out of the match. 2) Why? Again you forcing people to stop playing that doesn't help them in anyway shape or form. 3) Why? So you OB your blueberries because you don't feel theymare good enough? Instead of penalising people who want to play (however poorly), reward those who still get WP at the end of the match, penalise those who are in the redline and so forth. The best way to solve the redline is to make it CONCORD controlled. 1) You may now jump in directly from your warbarge to ANYWHERE in YOUR redline, this makes impossible to redline camp because it's to big. 2) If you kill someone at range greater than 50m from you, while you are in the Redline, CONCORD drops a tactical nuke on you. 3) If you kill someone who is in their redline, CONCORD drops a tactical nuke on you. 4) While you are within the redline you will not earn passive ISK or SP The redline is now fixed. Tanks 514* I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Supra Advyn Nos Nothi 72	Posted - 2014.02.02 22:27:00 - [10] - Quote " *Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle" Bam. There it is. All the relentless Hate and shake down on snipers, Until you really need one in your squad, to rid the redline'd snipers. you should know by now....

True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6480	Posted - 2014.02.02 22:27:00 - [11] - Quote Grit Breather wrote: And here's why. They enable cooperative team play. They help new players not get hurt. Without them there would be chaos. All those foxes out there are scary. To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots. Thoughts? Discuss! The Redline is a joke. No one should be able to fire their weapons in the redline as it is outside CONCORD sanctioned battlefield zone, and players should not be able to die in the redline as CONCORD is monitoring the vitals and protecting non combatants from stray rounds. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 510	Posted - 2014.02.02 22:53:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Grit Breather wrote: And here's why. They enable cooperative team play. They help new players not get hurt. Without them there would be chaos. All those foxes out there are scary. To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots. Thoughts? Discuss! The Redline is a joke. No one should be able to fire their weapons in the redline as it is outside CONCORD sanctioned battlefield zone, and players should not be able to die in the redline as CONCORD is monitoring the vitals and protecting non combatants from stray rounds. Just had this image of someone firing from the redzone and Concord raining hell on them from above. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 268	Posted - 2014.02.02 22:59:00 - [13] - Quote Adding this: The ONLY issue with the redline is that remote explosives disappear when they travel into the redline. The rest of it is a good game mechanic to prevent spawn massacre. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:45:00 - [14] - Quote Supra Advyn wrote: " *Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle" Bam. There it is. All the relentless Hate and shake down on snipers, Until you really need one in your squad, to rid the redline'd snipers. If you went further into my post it was about how you would have to suicide a vehicle to get to them in the redline, I have no problem with snipers taking the high ground as long as it is within the match where they can actually be shot back at. Proto and officer sniper rifles are the only sniper rifles that can zoom in and kill past 200m with any efficeny, thus they can make themselves untouchable by going into a hill on the back of their map, they especially love it when they can also hide under an MCC. Being able to hide under the MCC also enables them to be immune from OB, and if they can terrain glitch they become basiccally invincible for all the match and just have to shoot and kill people with no fear of retaliation typically. I'm sure you could have gotten all that from any forum that talks about sniping in this game and about how they redline.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1780	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:59:00 - [15] - Quote well let's look at the most hated and annoying game mode in all of dust. tankbush, now let's see which is the only game mode that doesn't have a red line....tank bush, why does tank bush exist, because theirs no red line to properly setup and deploy counter vehicles. red lines are ultimately good.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2395	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:05:00 - [16] - Quote Back in closed beta the enemy spawns were out of the redline As soon as anyone spawned on the ground they died If anyone spawned in the MCC they couldnt jump out because they were waiting, if you had a tank with missiles you could fire into the MCC So really it ended up with the enemy team in the MCC throwing things out of it Now they cant even do that because of MCC forcefield and would just run around for the entire game in the MCC and afk until it was done This would happen alot more too, the redline gives a team the chance to break out sometimes, half the time they still sit in the MCC because whats the point against protostompers, your wasting time, gear and energy and thats even more true if your a new player and not a vet with 300mil SP Intelligence is OP
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1104	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 - [17] - Quote Red-lines should be giant Shield barriers extended from the Warbarge done in a very New Eden way. Being behind the shield barrier doesn't allow you to shoot out of it and or receive fire from within. Allowing red-lined teams to full respawn, call in appropriate vehicles and dropships, group up and push out of the red-line and gives that side a fighting chance to come back. The shield should only allow one pass through, meaning once you leave the safety of the shield barrier it cannot recognize you independently and let you run back into the red-line. Because the red-line shield barrier wouldn't allow damage to pass through from either side it will also nullify a lot of the players who choose to spend 80% of their game time in the red-line not contributing to their team, or truly getting the New Eden Experience of competition in the battlefield as they are not fully on it. Furthermore if you are in the red-line for 2 minutes+ they can just blanket kick everyone from the match... Stopping the AFK in a "safe area" that hurts both sides of competition. It's of course not the players fault they take advantage of this, the blame lies with CCP.
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 425	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:30:00 - [18] - Quote IO always thought the redline should be the range for auto turrets on the MCC. No insta death after 20 seconds. You would be under fire any time you cross into the range of the 80gj blasters, but that's it. It would maintain a safe spawn but allow pesky snipers and rail tanks to be vulnerable if you are smart and resourceful enough. Who wants some?
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 643	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:35:00 - [19] - Quote WE KNOW!!!!!!! thats why some of us have tried to come up with a replacement for it... like an easily defendable heavily fortified structure that would be very difficult to capture even for a bunch of proto bears with very good equipment and other stuff.. and has safe areas from orbitals. but at the same time removes redline sniping and other such annoying factors surounding the redzone. makes redlining non existent which could create better possibly more fun matches.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 178	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:50:00 - [20] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Grit Breather wrote: And here's why. They enable cooperative team play. They help new players not get hurt. Without them there would be chaos. All those foxes out there are scary. To demonstrate the above reasons, I've added an in-game image of a typical group of blue dots. Thoughts? Discuss! Enables snipers to be nearly untouchable, they go up on hills where unless you have a proto or officer sniper rifle you can not hit them except if you are willing to suicide a dropship. Allows for tanks with railguns to be near godly Allows for afk farming, especially in the mcc Provides to much of a safety zone and no reason to leave it when you are loosing or to even fight when loosing. *Discourages using realistic tactics in order to counter the enemy, why bother when you have the godly redline. Redlines would be far less needed if 1. Their was an option for team surrender 2. If not reaching the objective after a certain number of minutes your team looses. 3. Orbitals also did team damage instead of friendly fire off. On all game modes. 4. The tutorial for new players was better. Many other reasons could be listed or ways to handle this, but in short the redline is a only taking away the attetnion from the true problems in the game. Though your picture was quite accurate in many ways. Ambush has no redline, do you think the advantages you cla are apparent there. My experience, which many others seem to share, is it doesn't. I think it is much better to make redline boundaries impenetrable both ways with a time limit of how long you can stay there, once out you can't go back.

Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 179	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:52:00 - [21] - Quote Should have just said, what Bethhy said.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10615	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:14:00 - [22] - Quote There are better solutions that don't reward 0 skill players with a risk free commanding view of the battlefield Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot


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