DUST Search - Remove or Reduce the Cloak Scan Profile Reduction

Sana Rayya wrote:

No change needed. The cloak bonus really only helps non-Gal Scouts, and that's only if they're scanned while their cloak is on. It's overkill on Gal Scouts who already have natural profile reduction.

If you're really concerned about medium frames using it to dodge scans instead of using dampeners, consider this - one complex dampener (33 CPU) only gets you under ADVANCED scans (which are the most common right now). Is equipping a CPU/PG-hungry basic cloak module that only lets you avoid advanced scans for at max, 60% of the match, really a better option?

Remember, you could only dodge scans if you activate your cloak before you are scanned, so you'd have to have a godly sense of timing to remain unscanned. And you are far more likely to get scanned while doing things that you can't do while cloaked (i.e. killing enemies) so you are SOL once this happens.

And if you want to dodge 28dB proto scans and 36dB scans passively, you'll still need Dampening to 5 and have to equip a Complex Dampener and a cloak. I'll bet only proto logis could manage this without severely gimping the rest of your suit.


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Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 128	Posted - 2014.01.23 02:38:00 - [1] - Quote Shello people, I'm a Scout. I've unsuccessfully fought as an Assault and successfully fought as a non-slayer Logi. I've been looking at the Cloaking Fields and something hasn't felt right about them to me; I finally realized the off-factor was the scan profile reduction. As the Cloaking Fields stand, I don't like how each tier has the same profile reduction because the profile reduction is equal to a complex dampener at every level. The way I see this, a non-Scout Proto suit could effectively use the standard level Cloak Field at a similar to level to Scouts using a Proto cloak. Other suits would receive the same profile dampening bonus from the basic level cloak and have CPU/PG to spare for complex profile dampeners and even proto weapons (although, I don't think they'd be able to fit everything with proto). Even proto Scouts using an advanced cloak would reap the same stealth rewards as a proto Scout using a proto cloak for less cost and an overall marginally reduced cloaking period (when factoring in the cloak recovers like stamina and not like vehicle modules, even though this might not be absolute). I don't like how the profile reduction remains consistent across the board, how all the suits could use this fact to their advantage, and how the cloak profile reduction isn't tiered to match modules and skills at their respective levels. This said, I'd wanted to see what people think about the profile reduction being either removed completely or matching the dampener at the cloak's respective level. Standard -> 15% profile reduction Advanced -> 20% profile reduction Prototype -> 25% profile reduction I don't want to destroy the possibility of other suits using the cloak, but I don't like how the profile reduction tiering works for Scouts and non-Scouts alike. I'd rather not see an proto Scout using advanced or even standard equipment be able to stealth tank just as well as a proto Scout using proto gear for a reduced price. I'd also rather not see other Proto suits being able to stealth tank using a standard cloak as well as they could were they to have a proto cloak. What do people think (Scouts and non-Scouts alike)? Does this seem reasonable? Is my post wrong in any way? TL;DR: Cloaking Field Profile Reduction Removed X_X -OR- Standard -> 15% Advanced -> 20% Prototype -> 25% Thoughts? EDIT: Am I using the right values for profile dampeners at each tier? I think I might be looking at old values. Another thing that popped in my head would be this: Standard -> 5% Advanced -> 15% Prototype -> 25% to match the profile dampening skill each level instead of the modules. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 128	Posted - 2014.01.23 02:50:00 - [2] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Have you seen the CPU and PG usage of the cloak you'd be insane to not use it on a scout suit. The fitting cost of the standard cloak on proto suits actually really isn't that hefty. Advanced is pretty bad, while proto is killer. Nevertheless, other suits (I'm think mostly Assault & Logi, although Commando could do it, too) can fit the cloaks pretty well. This is with max'd PG/CPU skills. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:36:00 - [3] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dampening is only active while player is cloaked (has the cloak field "on"). So, their is no continues benifit here: 30s active 20s inactive at std. I'm ok with the with .25 across the board the reward for proto is 80s active 40s in active. That is true; however, because the cloak fields are predicted to work like stamina, the total seconds the cloak is used at any one period of time isn't going to majorly change. Moreover, by the time I flank the enemy and/or exit a fire-fight, my cloak will be ready to use again anyway (assuming there is not a delay like stamina, but even if there is it wouldn't be much of a problem at a distance). There isn't really a reward for Proto other than you can use the cloak more sloppily because you have more overall time to use it. Adjusting the dampening would mean that the reward is being able to stealth tank better rather than longer. Harpyja wrote: Welcome to the problems vehicles already got through tiericide! Where investment is not rewarded and scrubs can use standard modules for the same gains! Generally, I don't use vehicles, so I wouldn't know. Hopefully some preventative measures will take care of these problems before they arise. To those who are dealing with the vehicle problems, best of luck! I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:50:00 - [4] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Well, I simply don't agree with you, that is all. You say more time alow the player to use sloppily. I say more time equates to longer "effective" use. Trying to see what others think and clarify how I perceive things, too. Thank you for your input and please vote on the poll. I don't agree that more time = longer "effective" use, but I guess I can sort of see where you're coming from. Maybe its the recharge (still don't know enough about the cloak mechanics)? I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:54:00 - [5] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Samuel Zelik I agree. Cloaking =/= Profile dampening. So you're for removing over adjusting? I'm still on the fence... I'm not sure whether that would solve the problem of the advantage of the tiers being purely time, but I think removal would be better than keeping what we have now (since no one would get a free complex for putting in little SP). I'm leaning more towards adjustment because the dampening seems like more of contrast, but at the same time I agree with your statement. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:01:00 - [6] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus. Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows? No thanks. Could you link or show the math for the other suits? I can't seem to find it and would like to know that stats as a reference. Regarding being lit up all the time: since the spin-scan is being removed and we'll start receiving snap shots instead of tracking scans, dodging the scans will be made easier. Not sure who all will be using the focused scanner, but swinging around from the main force will most likely mean you have less of a chance of being scanned (unless some Logis start sac'ing equipment slots to stack scanners <- prolly not gonna happen) and they won't be able to tell your direction, even if you are scanned. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:13:00 - [7] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: What id really like is the cloak to be more cpu intensive but less pg intensive. The pg is killer because it is needed for all biotic modules, which scouts rely on to survive I don't use biotics. :/ PG heftiness is probably a trade off for getting the visual/engineering immersion. CPU seems like the electronic side, but I don't remember dampeners taking up that much space. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:29:00 - [8] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Non G-scout no mod: 31 dB Non G-scout one mod: 24 dB Non G-scout two mods: 18 dB G-logi scanner: Adv: 27 dB Proto: 21 dB Proto focused: 15 dB Non G-logi scanner: Adv: 36 dB Proto: 28 dB Proto focused: 20 dB Thank you! Doesn't seem unmanageable to me, atm. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: No Any particular reason or... ? I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 129	Posted - 2014.01.24 19:58:00 - [9] - Quote Anymore opinions? This isn't address just to Scouts. So far the votes are: Removal: 2 Change: 1 No Change: 4 Other: 1 I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 130	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:48:00 - [10] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: No change needed. The cloak bonus really only helps non-Gal Scouts, and that's only if they're scanned while their cloak is on. It's overkill on Gal Scouts who already have natural profile reduction. If you're really concerned about medium frames using it to dodge scans instead of using dampeners, consider this - one complex dampener (33 CPU) only gets you under ADVANCED scans (which are the most common right now). Is equipping a CPU/PG-hungry basic cloak module that only lets you avoid advanced scans for at max, 60% of the match, really a better option? Remember, you could only dodge scans if you activate your cloak before you are scanned, so you'd have to have a godly sense of timing to remain unscanned. And you are far more likely to get scanned while doing things that you can't do while cloaked (i.e. killing enemies) so you are SOL once this happens. And if you want to dodge 28dB proto scans and 36dB scans passively, you'll still need Dampening to 5 and have to equip a Complex Dampener and a cloak. I'll bet only proto logis could manage this without severely gimping the rest of your suit. I'd argue the cloak bonus helps Gal Scouts just as much because the cloak bonus gives them a free low slot, whereas other suits would have to equip a dampener. This post shows the breakdown for the non-Gal Scouts and all Active Scanners. So to passively avoid all scans (I believe this is with skills max'd), non-Gal Scouts would need 2 slots with complex dampeners + cloak for visual. Were they to drop a complex, they could borderline using any of the cloaks. Gal Scouts would still be at -1 low slot (compared to other Scouts) in all of that because of the bonus. Regardless, thats not really the point I'm trying to make; just a side thought. I'm not at all worried about the medium frames using the cloak; in fact, I think it'd be really interesting and am glad med frames will be able to use cloaks! Relatively speaking, the basic/advanced cloak isn't actually that CPU/PG hefty with max'd core, electronic, and engineering skills (on a Proto). I really couldn't say the better option; a max'd Proto Assault can fit a basic(and maybe advanced, too) cloak, with dampeners filling low, and a Proto light weapon with ever so slight room to spare. Dodging the scans before being scanned is true, but with the 360 changes, chances are by flanking one will have enough time not be scanned or just stacking complex to avoid the scans all together. Like I said above, it won't only be Proto Logis. Even a Proto Commando could do it, albiet I'm not sure how this would help since the Commando's gonna be getting lit up all the time regardless (haven't done calculations; feel free to correct me). Who knows, maybe that 25% basic will let the Commandos avoid most scans (with stacked PD in lows). I was going to use that Installation...

Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 130	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:56:00 - [11] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: [...] I'd hate for Gallente Scouts to be undetectable both visually and by scanner. I know which suit I'm going to skill into if this gets into the release. Good luck finding me before I have my charged Scrambler Rifle aimed at your back. With the current numbers, all the Scouts will be able to do this with enough Dampeners. Cloaks at current standing, Scouts will be able to avoid all scans at -1 to -2 low slots (profile dampeners) at every level of cloak. Really only an advanced level cloak would be needed for a reasonable total cloak time; the Proto one isn't worth using compared to overall cloaked time gained vs. CPU/PG weight. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 131	Posted - 2014.01.25 00:05:00 - [12] - Quote Removal: 3 Change: 2 No Change: 6 Other: 1 --- Maybe my concern is unclear? The concern I'm trying to express is the higher tier cloaks offer little to no benefit (mainly the step from advanced to proto) for the CPU/PG increase. With the constant 25% profile reduction, the advanced cloak is just as good, if not better than the proto cloak; less overall cloak time, less CPU/PG. Nevertheless, those who want the cloak changed vs. those who don't want it changed seems pretty even atm. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 131	Posted - 2014.01.25 00:20:00 - [13] - Quote Horizen Kenpachi wrote: Not a scout but love racing objectives at the beggining mlt style was woundering if theres a possibilty to equipt to cloaks at once probably a logi but what would that mean Limit to one cloak per suit; neither Logis nor Scouts could equip two. I was going to use that Installation...
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 134	Posted - 2014.01.25 15:36:00 - [14] - Quote No changes on the votes since last post: Removal: 3 Change: 2 No Change: 6 Other: 1 --- More opinions? Everyone welcome! I was going to use that Installation...