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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
117
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the Caldari focus on information warfare (denial of information i.e. jamming)
The Gallente focus on counter-information warfare (detecting enemies).
Therefore shouldn't the Gallente scout be the one that gets the improved scan precision and the Caldari one get lower profile? This also makes sense slot wise, precision modules are high slots and thus go well with an armor tanked suits vs profile damps which are low slots and would go well with a shield tanked suit. The current bonuses would have the Caldari and Gallente directly competing with tank for passive scan modules they get bonuses for. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3660
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
YOU have it backwards. There was a thread on this; gallente are denial of information.
We used to have a time machine
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2940
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think it's possible to take the dedication to lore a little too far.
No.
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
118
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
If Gallente are denial of information then in EVE why is it the Caldari who get bonuses to jammers (Scorpion) whose counter would be improved sensors? |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5874
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:YOU have it backwards. There was a thread on this; gallente are denial of information.
Not in EVE. Gallente are about detection, and heck even the active scanner in Dust is Gallente.
Chunky Munkey wrote:I think it's possible to take the dedication to lore a little too far.
I agree, but I don't think this particular situation is taking it too far at all. Both the bonuses are already there, so swapping them wouldn't hurt.
If anything, perhaps something with the fact that precision enhancers are high slots and Cal scouts get a lot of high slots, while profile dampeners are low slots and Gal scouts get a lot of low slots. Though really I could see someone taking that argument either way.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12498
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caldari are long range fighters, they rely on information gathering in order to assist their weapon systems. The better informed a caldari is the harder it is to kill them. Jammers are part of their defenses so they can escape and obtain long distance and begin sniping again. While no race has sensor booster affinity the caldari ships typically have the longest lock ranges and best lock times.
Gallente are short range fighters and use the active sensor dampeners as part of their defense suite to get in range of their deadly weapons (and at meter per meter gallente are uncontested in damage at point blank and will literally **** ships in half)Once in range the dampeners are useless the gig is up but that time its too late for most targets, they're under the guns, they're too fast and they're installing new spaceports in your ship. Inversely is the ship stays out of range and let the drones deal with the targets. Using dampeners once again to prevent locking onto the small minute targets.
Gallente and Caldari are direct counters for each other.
You have to think about the warfare the races have and how they deal with each other, the design aspect of this has heavily suggested there has been military evolution involved in the arms race.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Melchiah ARANeAE
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
433
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Actually, the bonuses they get make more sense slot wise. The Caldari scout needs high slots for shield mods and so gets a free (better than) complex mod to help free up the high slots. And the Gallente scout gets a free complex mod to help free up low slots for more armour mods/range amps.
We want cake and tea.
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
119
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Caldari are long range fighters, they rely on information gathering in order to assist their weapon systems. The better informed a caldari is the harder it is to kill them. Jammers are part of their defenses so they can escape and obtain long distance and begin sniping again. While no race has sensor booster affinity the caldari ships typically have the longest lock ranges and best lock times.
Okay then I am having a hard time understanding what exactly the Gallente actually focus on then. They focus on dampeners but not cloaks, they have an active scanner but scanning is really Caldari, and they are counter-intel warfare but in EVE the Caldari get jammers.
Other than dampeners what else do the Gallente do that is counter-intel? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12498
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Caldari are long range fighters, they rely on information gathering in order to assist their weapon systems. The better informed a caldari is the harder it is to kill them. Jammers are part of their defenses so they can escape and obtain long distance and begin sniping again. While no race has sensor booster affinity the caldari ships typically have the longest lock ranges and best lock times.
Okay then I am having a hard time understanding what exactly the Gallente actually focus on then. They focus on dampeners but not cloaks, they have an active scanner but scanning is really Caldari, and they are counter-intel warfare but in EVE the Caldari get jammers. Other than dampeners what else do the Gallente do that is counter-intel?
Stealthed engine signatures, originally did design the stealth plates but did not publish the modules for wide distribution, Lightweight armor systems (Shields are electronically noisy as hell). Shaped hulls increasing resiliency without overburdening engines or shipmass, Micro-Jump drives, Tripwire defense system (lore), naturally one of the lower signature radius races. Black Eagles organization (lore)
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
119
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Stealthed engine signatures, originally did design the stealth plates but did not publish the modules for wide distribution, Lightweight armor systems (Shields are electronically noisy as hell). Shaped hulls increasing resiliency without overburdening engines or shipmass, Micro-Jump drives, Tripwire defense system (lore), naturally one of the lower signature radius races. Black Eagles organization (lore)
Okay so how will those ideas translate into Dust? Shields don't affect your signature radius like in EVE with active scanners trying to and trying to profile damp isn't very effective unless you are a scout. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12499
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Stealthed engine signatures, originally did design the stealth plates but did not publish the modules for wide distribution, Lightweight armor systems (Shields are electronically noisy as hell). Shaped hulls increasing resiliency without overburdening engines or shipmass, Micro-Jump drives, Tripwire defense system (lore), naturally one of the lower signature radius races. Black Eagles organization (lore)
Okay so how will those ideas translate into Dust? Shields don't affect your signature radius like in EVE with active scanners trying to and trying to profile damp isn't very effective unless you are a scout.
Dunno I damp my caldari assault up he dodges quite a few of the scans.
Sensor Dampening is not a form of jamming but a form known as obsurfication, or noise generation or confusion.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Stealthed engine signatures, originally did design the stealth plates but did not publish the modules for wide distribution, Lightweight armor systems (Shields are electronically noisy as hell). Shaped hulls increasing resiliency without overburdening engines or shipmass, Micro-Jump drives, Tripwire defense system (lore), naturally one of the lower signature radius races. Black Eagles organization (lore)
Okay so how will those ideas translate into Dust? Shields don't affect your signature radius like in EVE with active scanners trying to and trying to profile damp isn't very effective unless you are a scout.
Shields affect your sig radius in eve? Good job mine fall so damn fast in fights then I guess.
As to Profile dampeners only really being effective on a scout, that fits right in with the cov-ops philosophy that Gallente (anomgst the four empires at least) specialise in. The Black Eagle dropsuits are scout suits (ironically the black eagles suits don't have a slot to fit a dampener too but I think the suit's base rate is lower than average anyway, I don't have the stats in front of my right now).
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
119
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Dunno I damp my caldari assault up he dodges quite a few of the scans.
Sensor Dampening is not a form of jamming but a form known as obsurfication, or noise generation or confusion.
But that is just the thing, because dampeners are low slots no sane Gallente would want to fill their low slots with damps as you would lose too much HP. Caldari can do a far better job of dampening than Gallente with the current setup.
Perhaps the Gallente could get an equipment that, as long as you have it out, will give a large reduction to profile radius in an aura. So it wouldn't be as good as cloaking but would have an easier fitting cost and affects more than yourself? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12501
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
As for continue talk on the military evolution.
How do you deal with a race of people with good jamming?
Don't let them know you're there to be jammed in the first place.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:As for continue talk on the military evolution.
How do you deal with a race of people with good jamming?
Don't let them know you're there to be jammed in the first place.
In FPS terms
If other traditional tools existed in Dust 514
Caldari would likely have the flashbang
The Gallente would likely have the decoy.
Caldari would likely have an active tac net scambler
Gallente would likely have a deployable stealth bubble.
I see, thank you. Is there any movement in CCP right now for more equipment/grenades or are there other more pressing concerns? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12502
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:As for continue talk on the military evolution.
How do you deal with a race of people with good jamming?
Don't let them know you're there to be jammed in the first place.
In FPS terms
If other traditional tools existed in Dust 514
Caldari would likely have the flashbang
The Gallente would likely have the decoy.
Caldari would likely have an active tac net scambler
Gallente would likely have a deployable stealth bubble. I see, thank you. Is there any movement in CCP right now for more equipment/grenades or are there other more pressing concerns?
There is a far more 'massively' pressing concern at the moment yes unfortunately, there are plans for more things but those things are going to take time once again. For now we can expect adjustments on things for the time being once we start getting information and going back and forth on counter play after content drops.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1661
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:So the Caldari focus on information warfare (denial of information i.e. jamming)
The Gallente focus on counter-information warfare (detecting enemies).
Therefore shouldn't the Gallente scout be the one that gets the improved scan precision and the Caldari one get lower profile? This also makes sense slot wise, precision modules are high slots and thus go well with an armor tanked suits vs profile damps which are low slots and would go well with a shield tanked suit. The current bonuses would have the Caldari and Gallente directly competing with tank for passive scan modules they get bonuses for.
The Gallente like stealth.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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