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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
Legacy Rising
77
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
God Hates Lags wrote:Amarr Logis can still drop 3 second uplinks.
Caldari Logis can still drop many long lasting amma/rep hives
Gallente Logi can still scan down anything other than a Gallente Scout or a cloaked scout of any other variety.
Minmatar Logi can still lay down 160 reps per second on a heavy from 40 meters away.
It's just that now no SINGLE logi can do all those things. Now every Logi is important (except maybe Caldari, they're not all that useful), every logi is essential. No more domination by the gallante or minmatar logi. This is fair.
The only true nerf to equipment was the scanner, which, let's face it - constant 360 degree scans was never working as intended.
Other than that equipment stats WITH THE LOGI BONUSES are more or less the same. All of the changes are reasonable and make sense, except for perhaps the rep tool range nerf which was unnecessary, but the repair rate makes sense.
Welcome to the new order of Logis. You're important, but you're on a team, no just with the people you support but with your fellow logis as well. This is now a heavily team reliant game. Having a well balanced team is essential.
10/10 troll for making me reply. So you dont think having to invest 7.5 million sp in all the Logi suits to use equipment properly is a not a nerf. Sure when they make it so only a Proto assault gallente could use a AR, Proto assault caladari can use a Rail rifle, Proto assault amarr can use a scrambler rifle and proto assault Winmatar can use a Combat rifle come back and talk to me. Tell me how great it is to have every weapon that isn't racial crap. That if you want to use any weapon you have to specced into that suit full freaking proto just to use it at the same level as it is now.
If you're Amarr and you like the Rail rifle, oops too bad, better spend 2.5 million SP on a caldari suit. On top of the SP for the rail rifle.
And if you a logi and like droping uplings, well too bad if you didn't spend 2.5 million SP on an amarr logis suit. And until you drop 2.5 million on the other suits thats the only thing you can do competently.
I can max grind about 300k a week. I'd have to grind out for 6 months just to use 3 pieces of equipment properly. Thats without the equipment SP of course.
Thats a crippling blow. Losing the tactical advantage in 3 out of 4 things essential to being a logi because RACE is the Mjolnir of nerf hammers.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
Legacy Rising
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 23:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jake Bloodworth wrote:The OP has put forth far too logical of an explanation for these forums...
3 out of four items used by logis nerfed to **** because race.
Youre not gonna be looking for a logi, you'll be b1tch1ing why is there no Amarr Logi with 3 second uplinks? Why is there no Minmatar Logi with decent reps (the reps you are enjoying right now)? Why is there no Caldari Logi with Hives? Scans...well its a crap bonus anyways.
That logibro who was doing all of that right now, risking quite a bit of ISK and investing a ton of SP into, now cant hardly do any. You can choose between 3 of the following bonuses: low reps, low ammo, fighting blind, or waiting 12 seconds to spawn. Because race. Also because CPM frigging fought for it. Amazing that whatever SP equipment skill tree you dump 1 million+ SP into will be meaningless unless you dump another 2.5 million into that racial suit. But thats by OP logic and yours, balanced, of course.
Spawn pads will rule in PC so expect a lot of slayer amarr logis. Cant beat a frigging 9 second spawn time advantage to that. Thats dying 4 times and respawning compared to uplinks dropped by any and all other suits in the game. Probably then reps because its the most practical career logi wise in terms of WP and saving friendlies in pubs, then hives then scans.
Its not a system for rewarding you for sticking with 1 suit. Its a system punishing you for not using all 4.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
Legacy Rising
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 00:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Jake Bloodworth wrote:The OP has put forth far too logical of an explanation for these forums... 3 out of four items used by logis nerfed to **** because race.
Youre not gonna be looking for a logi, you'll be b1tch1ing why is there no Amarr Logi with 3 second uplinks? Why is there no Minmatar Logi with decent reps (the reps you are enjoying right now)? Why is there no Caldari Logi with Hives? Scans...well its a crap bonus anyways. That logibro who was doing all of that right now, risking quite a bit of ISK and investing a ton of SP into, now cant hardly do any. You can choose between 3 of the following bonuses: low reps, low ammo, fighting blind, or waiting 12 seconds to spawn. Because race. Also because CPM frigging fought for it. Amazing that whatever SP equipment skill tree you dump 1 million+ SP into will be meaningless unless you dump another 2.5 million into that racial suit. But thats by OP logic and yours, balanced, of course. Spawn pads will rule in PC so expect a lot of slayer amarr logis. Cant beat a frigging 9 second spawn time advantage to that. Thats dying 4 times and respawning compared to uplinks dropped by any and all other suits in the game. Probably then reps because its the most practical career logi wise in terms of WP and saving friendlies in pubs, then hives then scans. Its not a system for rewarding you for sticking with 1 suit. Its a system punishing you for not using all 4. Ugh. That's the ******* issue with all of this. You guys are so damn fixated on what we have now in terms of stats. If they change the stats for 1.8, everything will be the same outside of stats EXCEPT that the logi will be able to boost the capability of a certain type of equipment. HTFU. We'll still need ammo from you guys and reps and scans and then some. The fact that you guys will be able do it better than us means that we will more than likely be looking for you ANYWAY. Just Ugh.
The idea you are skipping over is that only one logi suit will be able to do one of these things well, the other three logi suits will not. I have a proto minmatar logi. As of the stats released so far, my uplinks, hives and scans are all going to be nerfed, my rep tool is going to struggle to stay the same, and my hacking bonus is removed. All of my invested SP in equipment has gone Poof because Race. I have to select 1 task to do well and throw the rest in the bin.
If they had instead changed the stats so every light weapon is nerfed except for the suit you are proto in and left equipment alone, would i just be as right in saying "HTFU you can still shoot people but to use any weapon you want means spending 2.5 million for a Pro assault suit. For each Race."
Just to show how much it kills diversity, every single logi will be represented by one piece of equipment. Everyone who see mes will know right away my uplinks, hives and scans are ****, proto level or not The only thing i can do so far to change that is to go proto in every logi suit. Because Race. Thats BS.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
Legacy Rising
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 01:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:God Hates Lags wrote:Amarr Logis can still drop 3 second uplinks.
Caldari Logis can still drop many long lasting amma/rep hives
Gallente Logi can still scan down anything other than a Gallente Scout or a cloaked scout of any other variety.
Minmatar Logi can still lay down 160 reps per second on a heavy from 40 meters away.
It's just that now no SINGLE logi can do all those things. Now every Logi is important (except maybe Caldari, they're not all that useful), every logi is essential. No more domination by the gallante or minmatar logi. This is fair.
The only true nerf to equipment was the scanner, which, let's face it - constant 360 degree scans was never working as intended.
Other than that equipment stats WITH THE LOGI BONUSES are more or less the same. All of the changes are reasonable and make sense, except for perhaps the rep tool range nerf which was unnecessary, but the repair rate makes sense.
Welcome to the new order of Logis. You're important, but you're on a team, no just with the people you support but with your fellow logis as well. This is now a heavily team reliant game. Having a well balanced team is essential. 10/10 troll for making me reply. So you dont think having to invest 7.5 million sp in all the Logi suits to use equipment properly is a not a nerf. Sure when they make it so only a Proto assault gallente could use a AR, Proto assault caladari can use a Rail rifle, Proto assault amarr can use a scrambler rifle and proto assault Winmatar can use a Combat rifle come back and talk to me. Tell me how great it is to have every weapon that isn't racial crap. That if you want to use any weapon you have to specced into that suit full freaking proto just to use it at the same level as it is now. If you're Amarr and you like the Rail rifle, oops too bad, better spend 2.5 million SP on a caldari suit. On top of the SP for the rail rifle. And if you a logi and like droping uplings, well too bad if you didn't spend 2.5 million SP on an amarr logis suit. And until you drop 2.5 million on the other suits thats the only thing you can do competently. I can max grind about 300k a week. I'd have to grind out for 6 months just to use 3 pieces of equipment properly. Thats without the equipment SP of course. Thats a crippling blow. Losing the tactical advantage in 3 out of 4 things essential to being a logi because RACE is the Mjolnir of nerf hammers. :/ Stepping in here. Hey! Well for starters, you will be able to properly use all of the equipment from the get go...You're looking at the nerf as a punishment instead of the re-balancing it is. Most classes(counting those with equipment slots) currently have the potential to use each equipment to the same effective level. In 1.8 this will not be the case, if the stats remain true from now. Come the update, everyone except the logis will be able to use equipment at the same level, while the logis are able to use a single piece of equipment better than the others. This doesn't mean you have to go out and get each suit. It means quite the opposite. You find your preferred logistics equipment and stick to it's race. The only issue Logis are having is that their equipment is getting nerf to a new standard despite the fact that Logis will still be better at it than other classes. There's no sense in "But the Logi will be useless since other classes can use equipment" or "Logis will die out because they're ineffective compared to other classes." because the only bonus of the Logi we had for equipment was extra equipment slots. No bonuses towards specific equipment or nothing. I essentially could work as effectively on support as my Logi counterpart if I used uplinks on my scout, or nanohives on my assaults aside from having only one slot. We're not hearing any QQing about this despite the fact that pretty much anybody can do a Logi's job as long as they have 1 equipment slot yet people decide that 1.8 is the time to QQ about Logis becoming ineffective when they're actually getting a bonus that will make them more effective at supporting than what others think. I would also argue that comparing assaults and their weapons with logis and equipment isn't a good argument. The only weapon bonus we had was for the Amarr's ScR and that's probably going to go. Everything else was fitting bonuses for them. Add on top of that, that you don't really need an assault suit currently for the best usage of the weapon and that argument is down right silly. Let's not forget that the Gal Logi and Cal Logi are considered better slayers than the actual assaults...In 1.8 Assaults won't be the best at using weapons anyway :/, it will be the Commandos. I haven't seen a mass QQ about this yet because it seems pretty fair. Again, you're just presenting an argument that don't holds no water.
Sorry but it seems you haven't been following the changes to equipment. Plus if you think anybody can do a logis job with just 1 equipment slot....wow. Try sticking someone with a neddle, repping them, scanning the area clear and dropping a hive with one slot.
Anyways, No i will not be able to properly use all of the equipment because they are all getting a blanket nerf. Our "bonus" is to use one piece of equipment at current rates. If having an assault suit for the best usage of weapon sounds silly, then why does its sound silly for logis and their equipment?
Tell me what kind of renovated HP, PG and CPU drop suits stats in 1.8 will effect the difference in waiting 12 seconds to spawn in or 3? How will the cloak affect hive resupply? As far as we know CPP hasnt' changed the damage done, so TTK will still be the same. Dont get spawn killed because unless your side has a proto amarr logi, you could wait maybe 24 seconds instead of 6. Good luck holding an objective/
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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