DUST Search - raising weekly skill point cap

Lonegnr wrote:

Scalesdini wrote:

....no - there is only so much SP that can effect one fitting. The vets will get more options, no question, but the limit of effectiveness for a single fitting vs a single fitting will remain unchanged. The only difference will be newbro ability to grind up to a useful fitting of their choice to actually be able to contribute in a timely fashion, which at the moment takes months, even with boosters, which is a big part of the reason this game has such an atrocious retention rate. Remove the cap, vets can branch out and try new playstyles to reduce boredom with the game, and new players can become legitimate factors on the battlefield much faster - everyone wins..

This argument is used in Eve where it is actually balanced out by meta and logistics. Neither of those factors applies to Dust, and this "only difference" you're shrugging off is actually of massive benefit to those who have it.

I haven't been around long, but I'm sure there's a dev blog somewhere relating the skill cap to balance in some way. Fitting potential is something they probably worry about too.

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akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 8	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:58:00 - [1] - Quote i was wondering if the weekly skill point cap of 190,000 can be raised to something like 250,000. reasoning is that in a good squad a player can cap out in only 2-4 days.. and that leaves 3-5 days that most people only login for the daily bonus. also when PVE is added to the game i hope there will be an even higher cap limit. making the limit low punishes people who actually play the game. also add in the fact that the remaining suits, weapons and vehicles are being added to the game over time means there will be all racial equipment to unlock and that takes a large amount of SP to get all suits vehicles etc. and some people may argue for an even higher limit. 250k is a good interim amount and higher later on for the die hard collectors of stuff.. like having all sub capital ships in eve. just nice to have as many options for fits as possible.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1657	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:01:00 - [2] - Quote You must be new soon you'll get tired and capping out may seem impossible since there's nothing to motivate you to play. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 88	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:04:00 - [3] - Quote Skill cap used to be 50k a day ppl cried, now we are down from 350 a week to 190. Welcome.
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 251	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:13:00 - [4] - Quote The cap should be removed. All it does is stop new players from being able to compete with vets for months, during which time they are likely to leave and never return. It's a dirty trick by CCP designed to sell more SP boosters and amusingly it probably costs them SP booster sales, because why buy a 30 day booster when you're only getting a grand total of maybe 7 days of real use out of it? So on and so forth for the others, as well as the jaded folks like myself who refuse to buy them out of spite for the arbitrary progression limitation imposed on players for no reason than to try and grab cash out of our wallets (that we would spend anyway, see: every f2p MMO ever that sells XP boosters) and so they can say HURRDURR 7 YEARS FOR ALL SKILLS. And before someone says "HURRDURR BUT IF YOU REMOVE THE CAP THE VETS WILL STAY JUST AS FAR AHEAD", no - there is only so much SP that can effect one fitting. The vets will get more options, no question, but the limit of effectiveness for a single fitting vs a single fitting will remain unchanged. The only difference will be newbro ability to grind up to a useful fitting of their choice to actually be able to contribute in a timely fashion, which at the moment takes months, even with boosters, which is a big part of the reason this game has such an atrocious retention rate. Remove the cap, vets can branch out and try new playstyles to reduce boredom with the game, and new players can become legitimate factors on the battlefield much faster - everyone wins. tl;dr - remove the stupid, arbitrary cap. it helps no one.
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 8	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:33:00 - [5] - Quote no been playing for a while... i just want all suits, all weapons etc. i want a caldari suit with rail rifle i want an amarrian suit with scrambler and laser rifles etc etc. race specific suits with the race specific weapons. also race specific vehicles with their specific weapons. been playing EVE for 4 years and have most sub capital ships.. why?? you ask. because i want ships for secific jobs and reasons and not be limited.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 52	Posted - 2014.01.20 01:36:00 - [6] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: ....no - there is only so much SP that can effect one fitting. The vets will get more options, no question, but the limit of effectiveness for a single fitting vs a single fitting will remain unchanged. The only difference will be newbro ability to grind up to a useful fitting of their choice to actually be able to contribute in a timely fashion, which at the moment takes months, even with boosters, which is a big part of the reason this game has such an atrocious retention rate. Remove the cap, vets can branch out and try new playstyles to reduce boredom with the game, and new players can become legitimate factors on the battlefield much faster - everyone wins.. This argument is used in Eve where it is actually balanced out by meta and logistics. Neither of those factors applies to Dust, and this "only difference" you're shrugging off is actually of massive benefit to those who have it. I haven't been around long, but I'm sure there's a dev blog somewhere relating the skill cap to balance in some way. Fitting potential is something they probably worry about too.
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 266	Posted - 2014.01.20 02:42:00 - [7] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: Scalesdini wrote: ....no - there is only so much SP that can effect one fitting. The vets will get more options, no question, but the limit of effectiveness for a single fitting vs a single fitting will remain unchanged. The only difference will be newbro ability to grind up to a useful fitting of their choice to actually be able to contribute in a timely fashion, which at the moment takes months, even with boosters, which is a big part of the reason this game has such an atrocious retention rate. Remove the cap, vets can branch out and try new playstyles to reduce boredom with the game, and new players can become legitimate factors on the battlefield much faster - everyone wins.. This argument is used in Eve where it is actually balanced out by meta and logistics. Neither of those factors applies to Dust, and this "only difference" you're shrugging off is actually of massive benefit to those who have it. I haven't been around long, but I'm sure there's a dev blog somewhere relating the skill cap to balance in some way. Fitting potential is something they probably worry about too. Uh, I believe you've misinterpreted what I was getting at. The point was that new players get screwed by the SP cap because it will take them months to field suits that some of us have had for close to a year already. Newbros in MLT suits are not competitive with even my STD suit because of my core upgrades, now imagine how it feels for them to go up against protobears with the same core upgrades I have using all proto everything almost every single match. Does that sound like a good way to retain new players to you? No? Me either. Comparing this game to EVE is silly, at best, because EVE does not force new players to fight in null sec against death stars (or wtfever EVE has) the same day they start playing in a mining ship. The games may be in the same universe, but they could not be any less comparable to one another in terms of gameplay. Fitting potential is the same whether there's a weekly SP cap or not, there is an absolute, inarguable limit to the amount of SP that can contribute to any one single fitting. The difference removing the SP cap would make for vets with 20+ million SP would be their ability to use different setups, which has the effect of reducing boredom/burnout. "I don't feel like doing X anymore, I'll grind some SP and do Y for a while" vs "I'm bored of X, guess I'll just log in to cap out/get daily bonus" (side effect: reduces the population of the game, and further leading to protobears fighting newbros with no chance). Again, it's not like their ability to get more SP is going to contribute to them being any better in any single situation, it just gives them more variety and adaptability. While it's an advantage to be able to do many things well, it still doesn't change the fact that there is only so much advantage SP can give you in one single encounter - SP doesn't give you more weapon slots or the ability to carry heavy weapons on a medium frame or to instantly transform your dropsuit into a tank etc etc etc. CCP doesn't talk about the skill point cap except for a long time ago to say "hurrdurr it will take 7 years to get every skill in the game!" like anyone cares. The only reason they keep it is to try and force people to pay money for boosters, because they don't understand that people would buy boosters anyway. See: Every f2p MMO that sells XP boosters while not limiting player progression arbitrarily to do so. Cut SP gains by about half, remove weekly SP cap. Watch people play more and pay more. It's not rocket surgery.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 52	Posted - 2014.01.20 04:06:00 - [8] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Comparing this game to EVE is silly, at best, because EVE does not force new players to fight in null sec against death stars (or wtfever EVE has) the same day they start playing in a mining ship. The games may be in the same universe, but they could not be any less comparable to one another in terms of gameplay. Agreed; the way you phrased your comment actually heavily paralleled an argument made in Eve, but even if that wasn't your intent, it helps point out that adaptability has to be balanced out somehow. In Eve, the ability to adapt quickly in a "match" of sorts usually means you put in some logistical effort, but in Dust, all it took was a death or a swing by a deployment module. Scalesdini wrote: Fitting potential is the same whether there's a weekly SP cap or not, there is an absolute, inarguable limit to the amount of SP that can contribute to any one single fitting. The difference removing the SP cap would make for vets with 20+ million SP would be their ability to use different setups..... Again, it's not like their ability to get more SP is going to contribute to them being any better in any single situation, it just gives them more variety and adaptability. While it's an advantage to be able to do many things well, it still doesn't change the fact that there is only so much advantage SP can give you in one single encounter.... This is the problem I meant to refer to; you realize the benefit of a greater sp pool, but you have massive tunnel vision on individual encounters instead of the big picture that is actually winning a match. I realize the game's current state makes this hard to see (gotta love that TTK), but it is a long term concern that has to be considered. Either way, if your goal is to get people playing more (and paying more), you're better off fixing the subpar mechanics people currently put up with. SP wise, I'm partial to the idea people have floated around about not having an SP cap until a predetermined SP amount is reached (5, 10 mil, something like that).
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1087	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:12:00 - [9] - Quote Better yet, remove active skill training entirely and buff passive skill training to compensate. If you want to grind, that's fine, but do it for ISK and not for SP. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.


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