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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
420
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was playing with the numbers to try and decide which of these two suits I want to go with. The roles I want to play in battle are three different builds.
1: walking passive scanner.
This role would be focused on range enhancement and percision enhancement to scan any abd all targets in optimal firing range. Both suits can get 78 range with two complex. The caldari can get a lower percision but sacrifices all ehp to do so. Neither suit can get low enough to be guaranteed to find all scouts. The caldari can get to 16 or so with proto. But a gallante scout with two dampeners can get under that.
Winner: caldari but neither can match extremely stealthy builds.
2: under the radar flanker.
This is a build to avoid most scanners but has enough ehp to win some 1pn1s and the speed and ehp to disengage if need be.
The gallante has a low enough profile to fill this role without mods. Caldari requires dampeners to get under the quantum from a gallogi. Gallante is more fkexible as they can focus on shields or damage in the high and armor oor speed in the low. Plus the 3 armor repair makes up for the difference in shield reps.
Winner:gallante
3:super stealthy cqq
Low profile, active scanner, cloak and cq weapons. Clear winner is gallante. Only way to guarantee reasonable radar invisibility. Can supplement dampeners for kincat if scanners are low.
Winner: gallante
To me it's clear gallante is the best 1.8 scout. Caldari strength gets out matched by gallante strength. The caldari focused on scanning is easily beaten by the same tier gallante with slots left to fill.
Amarr and minmatar simply look inferior to both, especially in these 3 scout roles.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2887
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Caldari is the only real choice for a combat scout. The Gallente is stealth based, and the Minmatar is more of a Black Ops affair, and the Amarr currently has a CCP brand sex toy dangling from its stretched sphincter.
No.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8038
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is a pretty bad comparison.
Consider, for example, that the Cal scout can get 450 shields with a 50 HP/s regen and a 2s recharge delay.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2027
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:This is a pretty bad comparison.
Consider, for example, that the Cal scout can get 450 shields with a 50 HP/s regen and a 2s recharge delay.
Not to mention they can easily get 2 or 3 dmg mods and become a super glass cannon.
The Caldari scout is going to be interesting to fight.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
420
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I tried building some caldari fits, but the problem with the nice regen is that 2 seconds is still way too long to be in combat. It won't help survive against a good player who knows I'm there. And if we are talking out of combat, 3hp/s armor can get me back up and running before the next engagement.
Keep in mind, I don't want to be gfighting many fair fights. If I did, scout would be a poor choice. Glass cannon is pretty meaningless when my std cbr drops anyone before they can turn around. Caldari could build the best assault scout, but why be a scout if that's your build? |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
202
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I tried building some caldari fits, but the problem with the nice regen is that 2 seconds is still way too long to be in combat. It won't help survive against a good player who knows I'm there.
How's that outcome going to be any different than if to were in a GalScout fit? If your shields are down as a Cal, chances are that the same player would've burned away a great deal of armor as a GalScout
Quote:And if we are talking out of combat, 3hp/s armor can get me back up and running before the next engagement.
vs 50hp/s, 2sec after an engagement? Your bias obviously apparent.
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Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
436
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
The cal scout might not be able to catch the gal scout in a stealth game but with a cople precision mods it should ensure gals dont get lazy with their stealth skills as well as catch all the other frames well in advance of actually seeing them.
however i am so happy the gal scout still allows me to be stealthy.
"We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
420
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why would I have bias? Both scouts would get there shields back up quick. Caldari quicker yes, but by a few seconds. Which is helpful if you are agressiveky engaging an enemy. But if you are picking your fights and using stealth your downtime between fights is pretty big anyway, an extra 2-4 seconds is pretty meaningless. Meanwhile, the armor rep negates slow damage to the armor that accumulates every fight. Yes a gal who took a ton of armor is still in trouble, but most fights don't see a ton of armor damage. And again due to the rather long downtime between engagements 2-300 hundred armor could be repped in the 60-80 seconds spent moving to the next flank, or losing the squad chasing you.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
420
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:The cal scout might not be able to catch the gal scout in a stealth game but with a cople precision mods it should ensure gals dont get lazy with their stealth skills as well as catch all the other frames well in advance of actually seeing them.
however i am so happy the gal scout still allows me to be stealthy.
I think the disparity is a little too much. Right now gal scouts are about 2 slots ahead of cal in the ewar game. Meaning cal needs like 3 enhancers to forced gal to use one dampener. I think this gap should be reduced to 2. So a proto gal with Mx dampeners is the only thing that could bet a cal with max percision. The 2 slot advantage lets gal skip under with plenty of room |
OZAROW
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
1261
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Personally I think:
Amar speed tanked jumpy shot gunner
Caldari: variety of fits, yet not really due to 2 lows, personally I would try this just to see
1 complex shield energizer
3 complex shield
2 complex shield regulators
Compact hive
Cloak
Magsec an a CR
GALLENTE:
due to its bonuses it has the best variations, tank, stealth , speed , sensors
Minmatar: the true predator!
Im so excited for this, the hacking an knife bonus makes this the ultimate POACHER!
Hack, kill, hack, hide, kill, repeat.
We're gonna be able to run some good variations as well.
Basically 1 of every scout sensor mod, plus cloaks, since we passively beat adv scanners, an should be able to hide from proto 15db cuz we have 35 base db, complex passive bonus an 3 complex damps, wear a cloak an move slow an careful.
Minmatar an gallente are still the best IMO but the others will still be great in propper hands just know your play style an your ideal fits an pick what complements it, personally I think gallente is gonna see a lot of tourist assault love, become FTOM or extremely common suit on the field, it has plenty of diversity and perks
SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
420
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breaking down a role focused on eHP (i am using advanced, not proto, but the results like reflect the same, havent looked at it yet cause I dont normally run proto)
this is using std rifle, std pistol, std nade, 1 quantum scanner and 1 basic RE
Cal can get 561 (380/181) ehp with 4pg and 60cpu to spare. Its profile is 31.5.
Gal gets 560 (233/327) with 4pg and 58 pg to spare AND an extra low slot to to either use the pg/cpu or extend the pg/cpu for better weapons/equipment usage. And its profile is 23.6.
The percision isnt really a factor because without using slots to enhance range, the 37.5 radius of both passive scans is pretty meh.
I also made sure to not alter speed with any armor. If we allowed to sacrifice speed:
caldari gets 709 ehp.
gallante 804 ehp (this time no slots left over)
or 692 (with one slot and lot of pg/cpu, probably a good fit to allow for cloak) |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1609
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Breaking down a role focused on eHP (i am using advanced, not proto, but the results like reflect the same, havent looked at it yet cause I dont normally run proto)
this is using std rifle, std pistol, std nade, 1 quantum scanner and 1 basic RE
Cal can get 561 (380/181) ehp with 4pg and 60cpu to spare. Its profile is 31.5.
Gal gets 560 (233/327) with 4pg and 58 pg to spare AND an extra low slot to to either use the pg/cpu or extend the pg/cpu for better weapons/equipment usage. And its profile is 23.6.
The percision isnt really a factor because without using slots to enhance range, the 37.5 radius of both passive scans is pretty meh.
I also made sure to not alter speed with any armor. If we allowed to sacrifice speed:
caldari gets 709 ehp.
gallante 804 ehp (this time no slots left over)
or 692 (with one slot and lot of pg/cpu, probably a good fit to allow for cloak)
I really wish dual tanking didn't exist... I don't get why people complain about Caldari suits because if you want the BEST defense all you need is a dual tanked Caldari suit.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4070
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
BL4CKST4 wrote:
I really wish dual tanking didn't exist... I don't get why people complain about Caldari suits because if you want the BEST defense all you need is a dual tanked Caldari suit.
Exactly, I'd love to see dual tanking go away before 1.8 comes. It is a disgrace. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
866
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Scouts in general are gonna be the new OP class on the field... any choice in the class will make you strong.
It will be a Heavy and Scout game after 1.8 |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
205
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Why would I have bias? Both scouts would get there shields back up quick. Caldari quicker yes, but by a few seconds. Which is helpful if you are agressiveky engaging an enemy. But if you are picking your fights and using stealth your downtime between fights is pretty big anyway, an extra 2-4 seconds is pretty meaningless.
 THAT's my point. The bullet you were touting as a PRO is meaningless
Bones McGavins wrote:And if we are talking out of combat, 3hp/s armor can get me back up and running before the next
engagement.
Quote: Meanwhile, the armor rep negates slow damage to the armor that accumulates every fight. Yes a gal who took a ton of armor is still in trouble, but most fights don't see a ton of armor damage. And again due to the rather long downtime between engagements 2-300 hundred armor could be repped in the 60-80 seconds spent moving to the next flank, or losing the squad chasing you.
From which perspective, their hp values aren't equal. Slow armor damage on the Cal suit would be moderate armor damage to the Gal suit, slow armor damage on the Gal suit would be nonexistent on the Cal suit. |
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