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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2608
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was hoping they would either gain bonuses that transferred to the specialized frames or just be dropped. We haven't heard anything about them.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2240
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Basic are just unbonused suits and generally are more expenisve ISK wise but require alot less SP
Intelligence is OP
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zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
332
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Remove them.
Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1569
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Assuming they remain in the game...
I expect they'll be updated to fit some of the changes in slot layouts.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Jackof All-Trades
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
338
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hate basic frames. In a moment of weakness, I skilled them to proto.
Impossible to run. No bonuses, too expensive to even have a chance of making profit, and ugly. Seriously, they're just black.
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
\
Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
255
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:Hate basic frames. In a moment of weakness, I skilled them to proto.
Impossible to run. No bonuses, too expensive to even have a chance of making profit, and ugly. Seriously, they're just black.
Racist
Gÿé Syeven 514
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Jackof All-Trades
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
338
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Syeven Reed wrote:Jackof All-Trades wrote:Hate basic frames. In a moment of weakness, I skilled them to proto.
Impossible to run. No bonuses, too expensive to even have a chance of making profit, and ugly. Seriously, they're just black. Racist
Oops O.O
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
\
Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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Lucrezia LeGrand
224
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:Hate basic frames. In a moment of weakness, I skilled them to proto.
Impossible to run. No bonuses, too expensive to even have a chance of making profit, and ugly. Seriously, they're just black.
T-T But I like their colors, especially the Gallente Scout.
IMO, basic suits should get the pg/cpu changes in accordance to their class. I suppose the slot changes would also apply, but it's not necessary that they do. There used to be a BPO of a militia Minmatar Medium that had different slots than the isk version.
But most importantly, if CCP decides to upgrade basic Suits, they need to be cheaper ISK-wise. Basic Suits should be about getting a feel for a suit, and for new players who haven't started to specialize down a field yet. This allows new berries to have a variety of fits that they can use to adapt to a battlefield, although not good at any particular task, they can at least be an asset depending on the situation at hand.
If they happen to like Logistics, then from there they can move on from the Basic and start to specialize. The only problem is Basic Suits are too expensive to be even considered as a fitting. So they serve more as an SP sink before someone pours points into (insert class here) Level 1.
Make them cheaper. Standard can stay at 3000, that seems reasonable. Adv. should be the same at 8000, but proto should be much, much cheaper. maybe 30,000. I don't know. I'm bad with math, but the point is they are too expensive to be anything but an SP sink.
ya- hoi hoi
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Beamer 325
Hellstorm Incorporation
4
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:Remove them.
WOW! Really? You obviously are clueless.
I run my basic adv heavy 24/7. It is a TANK KILLER with two complex damage mods. That's around an EXTRA 250hp in damage. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4068
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:Hate basic frames. In a moment of weakness, I skilled them to proto.
Impossible to run. No bonuses, too expensive to even have a chance of making profit, and ugly. Seriously, they're just black.
Less SP spent if you don't really care for the bonus's.
Example, my brother got Minmatar basic to level 5 with about half the SP it would take for prototype. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8148
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Basic frames need to have a purpose. They are generally just inferior bonus-less, and more expensive versions of a specialized suit, and they become completely worthless and without purpose once you unlock a specialized suit.
They need to be a cheaper money-saving alternative (since they are inferior).
They need to have a more generalized multi-purpose non-specialized slot layout. For example, the basic mediums should have a 2nd equipment that makes it between the assault and logi.
There should be not be useless suits in Dust, especially not 48 of them (3 sizes, 4 races, 4 tiers). Dust will soon have 48 suits without purpose.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4068
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Basic frames need to have a purpose. They are generally just inferior bonus-less, and more expensive versions of a specialized suit, and they become completely worthless and without purpose once you unlock a specialized suit. They need to be a cheaper money-saving alternative (since they are inferior).
They need to have a more generalized multi-purpose non-specialized slot layout. For example, the basic mediums should have a 2nd equipment that makes it between the assault and logi.
There should be not be useless suits in Dust, especially not 48 of them (3 sizes, 4 races, 4 tiers). Dust will soon have 48 suits without purpose. ( Thread on the subject for those who haven't already seen)
1st point yes absolutely
2nd no way in hell. |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
988
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Beamer 325 wrote:zibathy numbertwo wrote:Remove them. WOW! Really? You obviously are clueless. I run my basic adv heavy 24/7. It is a TANK KILLER with two complex damage mods. That's around an EXTRA 250hp in damage.
The only reason that suit exists is because there has only ever been one heavy suit in the game (an attempt by CCP to add a little variety to the heavy class). None of the other class's basic frames are like this. So when we get heavy parity, expect the heavy basics to have the same slot layout as the racial sentinel, as it is with all the other classes.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Basic are just unbonused suits and generally are more expenisve ISK wise but require alot less SP
Basics should get bonuses to CPU/GP and have more slots than specialized suits.
The lack of bonuses would be upset by the ability to customize them heavily.
That would also justify the price. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8149
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Basic frames need to have a purpose. They are generally just inferior bonus-less, and more expensive versions of a specialized suit, and they become completely worthless and without purpose once you unlock a specialized suit. They need to be a cheaper money-saving alternative (since they are inferior).
They need to have a more generalized multi-purpose non-specialized slot layout. For example, the basic mediums should have a 2nd equipment that makes it between the assault and logi.
There should be not be useless suits in Dust, especially not 48 of them (3 sizes, 4 races, 4 tiers). Dust will soon have 48 suits without purpose. ( Thread on the subject for those who haven't already seen) 1st point yes absolutely 2nd no way in hell.
Specialized suits are not really specialized if they're just identical to basic frames with a bonus slapped on.
Furthermore, the basic medium is the predecessor to both assaults and logis, so it makes sense that it would be somewhere in between, this way the assault would be specialized by comparison.
Currently the medium basic frame allows you to try the assault play-style, but the logis have nothing to try their playstyle with until they spend a ton of SP.
So hell yes, but basic frames should lose something to compensate (unless they were UP to begin with, like lights).
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Delta90212
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
160
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Syeven Reed wrote:Jackof All-Trades wrote:Hate basic frames. In a moment of weakness, I skilled them to proto.
Impossible to run. No bonuses, too expensive to even have a chance of making profit, and ugly. Seriously, they're just black. Racist
That escalated quickly
Fear The Tribes // Standings Minmatar 5 // Gallente 5
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HiddenBrother
Days of Ruin
32
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Basic frames are just that; basic frames.
It's a gateway to the other specialized dropsuits. They are fine.
Ruin.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
988
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
For what they are (basics) they should be far less expensive than the racial variants, not that I think the racial variants should be more expensive than they are now mind you.
Another idea would be to give them far inferior bonuses than the racials, for instance:
Basic medium frame:
Gallente: 5% reduction to CPU/PG cost of blaster weaponry.
Caldari: 5% reduction to CPU/PG cost of rail weaponry
Minmatar: 5% reduction to CPU/PG cost of projectile weaponry
Amarr: 5% reduction to CPU/PG cost of laser weaponry
And just go down the line with the other classes and think of relevant but infirior bonuses, this along with a price reduction that under cuts the current price of the racials seems like it would be the way to go.
I am not a very big fan of the idea of just giving half the bonus from the racials to the basics, such as:
Basic heavy frame:
Gallente: 5% reduction to splash damage
Caldari: 5% reduction to splash damage
Minmatar: 5% reduction to splash damage
Amarr: 5% reduction to splash damage
This makes the progess seem far to small/incremental. There should be real difference between these suit types that plays on utility and variety as well as cost efficiency.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8150
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
HiddenBrother wrote:Basic frames are just that; basic frames.
It's a gateway to the other specialized dropsuits. They are fine.
No, they aren't just a gateway, they are almost identical to one specialized suit but without a bonus: heavy compared to sentinel, medium compared to assault. In what way these specialized suits truly specialized if they are just the same as the basic frames with a bonuses added?
Why are they only "gateways" to just one specialized suit while nothing like the other? You can try the basic medium to get a feel for assault or sentinel, but there is no "gateway" for something like a logi or commando. They need to be somewhere in between of their specializations.
They are MORE EXPENSIVE then their superior specialized counterpart. This should not be the case, once you unlock specialized suits, they are obsolete as even methods of saving money. It is not good for Dust to have so many suits that quickly become purposeless once specializations are unlocked; they just become a waste of space in the game. Everything should have a purpose, even if its for saving money.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Waiyu Ren
Immortal Guides
4
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Posted - 2014.01.19 00:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
To expand on the idea, at least in regard to Medium: Give Basics 1 extra equipment, high, and low slot than what they have now, and maybe lower the PG/CPU output. That way a player can customize the suit to get the feel for each of the specialized variants, but it is overall a weaker suit and unable to field a build that fills all slots.
Cost wise, i don't know. Honestly haven't used mine since i unlocked the assault and logi.... They are all-round better, making all but the Militia Basic completely pointless (Militia at least has the saving grace of being ridiculously cheap).
Also, is Proto basic necessary? Is Advanced??? They just seem so terrible in comparison that i imagine they only really get used by some very niche builds.... |
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