DUST Search - Tanks are destroying pub matches (I really don't care if this is a millionth...

True Adamance wrote:

That's perhaps the least positive way of dealing with tanks as they currently are. What tanks IMO need right now, being one myself, is a rebalancing against AV, and of even their own modules so that they are subject to a certain degree of risk like pre 1.7 tanks.

However given that tanks pre 1.7 while strong in the hands of talented tankers were subject to the depredation of massively effective and in some cases OP AV, coupled with issues of rendering, cost, and mobility.

While we have those now CCP has almost addressed the tankers concerns to the point where HAV are in great number ruining battles for infantry, and while 2 weeks ago I could not have cared less. I do feel somewhat dispassionate about tank combat as it doesn't requiring anything more than a MLT Sica fit to rule the map.

Rather than consider banning tanks from Pubs, we need to consider re balancing them to suit a specific role, be that mainly an anti tank ground vehicle functionality with emphasis on fire power and skill shotting infantry, or returning them to a more reasonable iteration.

This game gains nothing by imposing restrictions on player, especially where pub matches are the main source of income for any and all players.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
George Moros Area 514 278	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:06:00 - [1] - Quote OK, I'm in a small player corp, we play only pubs, mostly domination. Just to be clear from what perspective I'm writing this. I'm assuming that most people playing pubs are either playing solo, or in ad-hoc squads, usually without voice comms. This is especially true for new players. Also, I'm assuming that most people play infantry, not vehicles, especially not tanks. In each battle in which the opposing side has (more) tanks, and given the current tank (im)balance, the infantry players I'm referring at have three options: 1. Try to win by rushing the objective, and putting pressure on the enemy, regardless of tanks constantly massacring them. 2. Switch to AV, and try to destroy, or at least drive off the tanks. 3. Grab a sniper, sit in redline, let some other fool do the dieing, maybe get a few kills, but also get bored to death. However, In case of 1. - this rarely ends well. Even if the team without tanks manages to hold the objective, and keeps defending/attacking regardless of tanks massacring them, the match usually ends by loss due to clone depletion. I've been in matches where this happened even before any of the MCCs lost it's shields. In case of 2. - given the current AV to tank balance, even a decently skilled and equipped AV player will rarely have any significant impact on the outcome of the battle. It takes a coordinated attack of couple of AVers to destroy or repel tanks, without them returning in 20 seconds, and continuing with their slaughter. However, you rarely see this arrangement in pub matches. In case of 3. - I think I don't need to further comment this scenario. Since pub matches are the "entrance" to DUST to any new player who left the academy (and I suspect that even a significant portion of older player who are not in big corps still play mostly pubs), the situation they face is pretty grim and repelling. This is, simply put, killing the game and needs to be addressed ASAP. I'm not saying that tanks shouldn't be deadly and tough to kill. They should (although, they do seem to be OP right now). I'm saying that given the circumstances most players are in while playing pubs (again, this is especially true for new players), tanks simply have no place there. They are killing the fun in pubs. They're also killing any sense of accomplishment to those players. You are either lucky to be on the side with tanks, or unlucky to be on the side without them. Victory or loss simply has nothing to do with your skill and/or effort, if you're one of the players I'm referring to. Solution is simple: ban tanks from pubs. Or, if this seems like a too radical measure - introduce at least one public match game mode in which tanks are banned. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros Area 514 279	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:45:00 - [2] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Get a single good tanker on your team and watch as the 5 enemy tanks go kaboom. Numbers don't mean **!!! Blame scotty for not balancing the ***** teams out. Again, my point was that people playing solo or in ad-hoc squads are depending on tanks to win their battles for them. How are they supposed to "get a single good tanker"? Not to even mention that your proposal comes down to "if you can't win against tanks, use tanks". Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros Area 514 280	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:52:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: That's perhaps the least positive way of dealing with tanks as they currently are. What tanks IMO need right now, being one myself, is a rebalancing against AV, and of even their own modules so that they are subject to a certain degree of risk like pre 1.7 tanks. However given that tanks pre 1.7 while strong in the hands of talented tankers were subject to the depredation of massively effective and in some cases OP AV, coupled with issues of rendering, cost, and mobility. While we have those now CCP has almost addressed the tankers concerns to the point where HAV are in great number ruining battles for infantry, and while 2 weeks ago I could not have cared less. I do feel somewhat dispassionate about tank combat as it doesn't requiring anything more than a MLT Sica fit to rule the map. Rather than consider banning tanks from Pubs, we need to consider re balancing them to suit a specific role, be that mainly an anti tank ground vehicle functionality with emphasis on fire power and skill shotting infantry, or returning them to a more reasonable iteration. This game gains nothing by imposing restrictions on player, especially where pub matches are the main source of income for any and all players. IMHO, significantly nerfing tanks isn't a good solution. Like I said, they're supposed to be dangerous and tough. However, like you said, they are ruining battles for infantry. Especially when infantry doesn't have the capacity to launch a coordinated strike against them, which is most often the case in pubs. Again, if banning them from pubs entirely seems like a overly radical move, why not introduce a new public game mode in which they are banned? Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros Area 514 283	Posted - 2014.01.16 05:53:00 - [4] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Option 4: don't be a dumbass; rely on your team's scouts or vehicles to either supply a spawn point where you want to be, or for them to scare/destroy/distract the HAV while you move in. Vehicles are a part of the game everyone can use, not a killstreak to reward the infantry that are the very best at blindly charging like a dumbass. Option 4, (i.e. relying on anyone else to do anything), is not really an option for many people playing pubs. My post was primarily intended to raise attention to what new players, or those lacking interest in joining big corps (call them "casual players" if you want) are facing in game modes that are supposed to be for everyone. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros Area 514 283	Posted - 2014.01.16 06:12:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Well....that's kind of a given..... if you don't die from one thing...everything else will kill you..... Well he seemed new, so I was just warning him about the other horrors Abdomination has to offer. Like seeing the enemy team filled with nothing but Nyain San, Mottanai JAPAN, and other corps known for spamming the current FoTM(s). Personally, I'd rather deal with the tanks. No, I'm not new. I've been protostomped hundreds of times, and although it can be frustrating, I always knew that I can't reasonably expect to win against well organized squads running proto gear. HAVs are an entirely different matter, since it takes just one decent tanker in militia HAV to ruin the game for all opposing infantry, unless they are organized and on voice comms. Many people I'm referring to are frustrated with HAVs not because they can't stand losing all the time, but because they can't even attempt to fight back. If I'm facing some infantry protostompers, I know I'm (we're) going to lose, but at least I can switch to a cheap fit and try to kill a few stompers before the battle ends. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros Area 514 283	Posted - 2014.01.16 06:40:00 - [6] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Other than Manus Peak and Fracture road, all the null cannons are off limits to tanks in Domination. Carry uplinks, spawn where they cannot get at you. From here on out you shouldn't have problems, because you now outnumber the enemy infantry, and they have no backup from their tanks. Simple solution. I don't know what you mean by "off limits", but HAVs can get right next to objective in Line Harvest, Spine Crescent, Ashland, Border Gulch, plus of course Manus Peak and Fracture Road you mention. It's just that on some of those maps, they can't directly shoot people doing the hacking, but since they can shoot anyone trying to approach, it's not that big an issue. That's 6 out of 9 maps. Actually, the only domination maps in which tanks can't have the decisive influence on the outcome of the match, are the ones where objective is in the Gallente Research Facility. Pulvereus ergo queritor.