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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4625
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright, I've brought this up two or three times but I have re-done my testing videos to provide a more clear demonstration of what I'm getting at. I'd like to bring this up for discussion and see what the rest of you think about this, whether it should be changed or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNmx53VMazo
- Targets at 0m will appear on minimap, regardless of profile/precision.
- Targets on screen will appear on minimap, regardless of profile/precision, up to 75m
- Aiming down the sights of your weapon increases the brightness of their chevron/icon on the minimap, even if they are not on screen.
- Bringing the crosshair over a target will reveal their icon/chevron regardless of profile/precision (a tactic used by snipers to reveal location even if they cannot visibly see them).
Think there needs to be changes to this?
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Grit Breather
Cannonfodder PMC
943
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 11:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just to put this into some more technical terms for CCP.
Suits have 2 scan capabilities. Passive 360 scan and passive forward cone scan.
The former works to 10m on most suits (16m on scouts) and gives you almost everything around you within that range.
The latter works to a much longer distance but only in a cone facing directly forward into your current view.
It seems that when you go into ADS with a gun, the forward cone's range is increased accordingly but the scan angle (the cone width) is not reduced to match the new zoom level.
This should probably be fixed.
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4626
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:Just to put this into some more technical terms for CCP.
Suits have 2 scan capabilities. Passive 360 scan and passive forward cone scan.
The former works to 10m on most suits (16m on scouts) and gives you almost everything around you within that range.
The latter works to a much longer distance but only in a cone facing directly forward into your current view.
It seems that when you go into ADS with a gun, the forward cone's range is increased accordingly but the scan angle (the cone width) is not reduced to match the new zoom level.
This should probably be fixed.
Well, beyond that I'm not sure they should light up on your minimap if your precision can't beat their profile. Great way to find easy targets and completely circumvents the aspect of Profile Tanking but, I dunno.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Kierkegaard Soren
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
111
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
The best way I've seen this dealt with is in battlefield, where calling in enemy positions is an action in of itself, and the highlighted target pops up on the team minimap for x seconds. Scouts can take perks that reduce this time, as you would expect.
Functionally, we could build this into dust by allowing profile dampeners a second ability beyond the usual profile reduction. Keen eyes should be rewarded, but right now the balance is far too much in their favour with no obvious counter mechanic for the spotted.
Dedicated Commando.
So it's a good job KDR doesn't bother me, really.
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Grit Breather
Cannonfodder PMC
944
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Grit Breather wrote:Just to put this into some more technical terms for CCP.
Suits have 2 scan capabilities. Passive 360 scan and passive forward cone scan.
The former works to 10m on most suits (16m on scouts) and gives you almost everything around you within that range.
The latter works to a much longer distance but only in a cone facing directly forward into your current view.
It seems that when you go into ADS with a gun, the forward cone's range is increased accordingly but the scan angle (the cone width) is not reduced to match the new zoom level.
This should probably be fixed. Well, beyond that I'm not sure they should light up on your minimap if your precision can't beat their profile. Great way to find easy targets and completely circumvents the aspect of Profile Tanking but, I dunno.
That is true too. I highlighted that very issue to Wolfman months and months ago. He said he knows what causes it and will fix it... Guess not...
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4626
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 11:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Grit Breather wrote:Just to put this into some more technical terms for CCP.
Suits have 2 scan capabilities. Passive 360 scan and passive forward cone scan.
The former works to 10m on most suits (16m on scouts) and gives you almost everything around you within that range.
The latter works to a much longer distance but only in a cone facing directly forward into your current view.
It seems that when you go into ADS with a gun, the forward cone's range is increased accordingly but the scan angle (the cone width) is not reduced to match the new zoom level.
This should probably be fixed. Well, beyond that I'm not sure they should light up on your minimap if your precision can't beat their profile. Great way to find easy targets and completely circumvents the aspect of Profile Tanking but, I dunno. That is true too. I highlighted that very issue to Wolfman months and months ago. He said he knows what causes it and will fix it... Guess not...
Might have just forgot.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
516
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Passive scans are horrible. I cannot see a tank that's right to my left. Can you even damp a tank?
It happens to Infantry, too, but they get the benefit of the doubt since I only have 2 in precision and 0 in range (3 in gal scout). |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4627
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 12:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm curious as to how this is going to affect cloaking, really. If they're cloaked and it will still show their chevron/icon on the minimap just by having them on your screen within 75m, could be a major factor.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Melchiah ARANeAE
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
420
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Posted - 2014.01.15 12:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Passive scans are horrible. I cannot see a tank that's right to my left. Can you even damp a tank?
It happens to Infantry, too, but they get the benefit of the doubt since I only have 2 in precision enhancement and 0 in range (3 in gal scout).
I've got level 4 gal scout, 5 range amps, 3 precision and I run and advanced precision enhancer and a complex range amp. I can can see anyone bar a dampened scout up to 50m away. It's pretty sweet.
We want cake and tea.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
2869
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Posted - 2014.01.15 13:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Welcome to the plight of the scouts where LOS is ridiculous and your passive scans are unreliable. LOS is so over powered it's easy to spin around and look at your tacnet for blips to check for enemies rather than actually using your eyes. This is how I do counter scouting and moving around as a Minmatar as we have crap vision and I'd rather carry RE's.
your weapon range also has a bit to deal with LOS as you can't pull up target intel unless that enemy is within range of your weapon. Same thing can be said about their chevron i believe. If I have my knives out i can't light up enemies in the distance or check target intel but if i bring up my combat rifle they're like a christmas tree.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4631
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Posted - 2014.01.15 14:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Welcome to the plight of the scouts where LOS is ridiculous and your passive scans are unreliable. LOS is so over powered it's easy to spin around and look at your tacnet for blips to check for enemies rather than actually using your eyes. This is how I do counter scouting and moving around as a Minmatar as we have crap vision and I'd rather carry RE's.
your weapon range also has a bit to deal with LOS as you can't pull up target intel unless that enemy is within range of your weapon. Same thing can be said about their chevron i believe. If I have my knives out i can't light up enemies in the distance or check target intel but if i bring up my combat rifle they're like a christmas tree.
Interesting. I'll test that out sometime.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
2876
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Welcome to the plight of the scouts where LOS is ridiculous and your passive scans are unreliable. LOS is so over powered it's easy to spin around and look at your tacnet for blips to check for enemies rather than actually using your eyes. This is how I do counter scouting and moving around as a Minmatar as we have crap vision and I'd rather carry RE's.
your weapon range also has a bit to deal with LOS as you can't pull up target intel unless that enemy is within range of your weapon. Same thing can be said about their chevron i believe. If I have my knives out i can't light up enemies in the distance or check target intel but if i bring up my combat rifle they're like a christmas tree. Interesting. I'll test that out sometime.
Just did a test myself. You'll still get chevrons regardless of weapon range (within the range I tested anyway) but you'll only get target intel within your weapons range.
Didn't exactly get to test thoroughly though as I was just flipping between weapons on an unsuspecting stationary target.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1520
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
I like the idea that ADS would tightened your passive cone and extend its range. It should however only increase precision to a point, not highlight targets regardless of scan signature.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5579
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
So let me get this straight, if I put on a couple of precision enhancers, I get an active scanner with 75m range on to whatever I'm looking in the direction of?
Even through walls?
O_O
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
829
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Posted - 2014.01.15 18:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
more "mini" game scanning parameters would be awesome.
Hard to teach a new player all this without an intuitive learning process applied through an academy process.. or having to get invested into the forum and internet information sources to even know the differences.
Which sadly still alot of players don't fully understand the profile and scanning mechanics. |
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
248
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Posted - 2014.01.15 18:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So let me get this straight, if I put on a couple of precision enhancers, I get an active scanner with 75m range on to whatever I'm looking in the direction of?
Even through walls?
O_O
No, precision enchansers or skil that increase your precision have nothing to do with it. in ADS you get target visibility regardless of it scan profile.
When i run sniper fits i can highlight any enemy trought 50m+ of solid ground (behind hills) in some accasions, it's been like that since as long as i remember... Point or aim in direction of enemy with sniper rifle & you can see them inside buildings, inside MCC, trough hills, some covers like small lonely walls.
If you not scoping you can't see some models because of lod rendering, but you can see enemy behind cover clearly, he dissapears when you scope at him (but not always).
Why it does show enemy trought entire map, out of my sniper rifle range, inside MCC for example... i have no idea. But it's like that since beta.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4636
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So let me get this straight, if I put on a couple of precision enhancers, I get an active scanner with 75m range on to whatever I'm looking in the direction of?
Even through walls?
O_O
Guy above me pretty much nailed it. I wasn't using precision enhancers on this suit, just the stock precision of the Gallente Assault suit with level 1 in the Precision Enhancement skill.
Edit: Like I said before, I can't wait to see the travesty this causes to cloaking when you can just look in the general direction of a Scout and immediately know they're there despite not being able to see them.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5580
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 20:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So let me get this straight, if I put on a couple of precision enhancers, I get an active scanner with 75m range on to whatever I'm looking in the direction of?
Even through walls?
O_O Guy above me pretty much nailed it. I wasn't using precision enhancers on this suit, just the stock precision of the Gallente Assault suit with level 1 in the Precision Enhancement skill. Edit: Like I said before, I can't wait to see the travesty this causes to cloaking when you can just look in the general direction of a Scout and immediately know they're there despite not being able to see them.
That's just bad.
They should keep the range increase on direct LOS but you should require precision enhancers to actually see them.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
250
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Posted - 2014.01.17 06:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
They need to copletly change that feature, to highlighting only by pointing directly at target. Not like grab sniper rifle & swipe across the hills & you can see all snipers (even behind cover). Or highlighting running scout with dampners just by pointing near his locations (not directly at him), which is completely ridiculous.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2739
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Posted - 2014.01.17 06:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Should I update the Passive Scan bible?
Check out latest BSOTT Guide
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Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
250
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Posted - 2014.01.17 07:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Should I update the Passive Scan bible?
Rather add section "Screen scanning".
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
466
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Posted - 2014.01.17 07:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Passive scans are horrible. I cannot see a tank that's right to my left. Can you even damp a tank?
It happens to Infantry, too, but they get the benefit of the doubt since I only have 2 in precision and 0 in range (3 in gal scout).
You can See the tank.. Hear the tank, and track the tank on your map... that's a ton of warning. If you need more it's probably because you're blind. >.>
Not to mention the headlights change the environment lighting so much that it's kind of hard to miss such an obvious target. You need your minimap to help you because you weren't paying attention?
Not paying attention = death
It doesn't matter what your opponent is running- tanks are not stealth units in any capacity.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4669
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Joel II X wrote:Passive scans are horrible. I cannot see a tank that's right to my left. Can you even damp a tank?
It happens to Infantry, too, but they get the benefit of the doubt since I only have 2 in precision and 0 in range (3 in gal scout). You can See the tank.. Hear the tank, and track the tank on your map... that's a ton of warning. If you need more it's probably because you're blind. >.> Not to mention the headlights change the environment lighting so much that it's kind of hard to miss such an obvious target. You need your minimap to help you because you weren't paying attention? Not paying attention = death It doesn't matter what your opponent is running- tanks are not stealth units in any capacity.
While I'm not 100% positive it applies to vehicles, I have videos showing that you can hear weaponsfire/footsteps behind you. Only on your screen.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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