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Skidmarx Black
X Death Before Dishonour X
2
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Posted - 2014.01.12 20:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Basic question, Am I better to run 2x complex damage mods or a complex and an advanced.
I know there is a penalty for stacking but how much is the penalty. 10% 50% ???
if its any more than 50% realistically i am better off to run the advanced over a second complex due to it being cheaper.
Now , what about the factions damage mods you can get.
can I run a complex and then a faction complex and have no penalty or does the penalty still apply?
this of cource runs into the 3rd damage modifier I can now fit. what is the third penalty.
I have been told numerous times its 50% for the second and 90% for the third which doesnt seem right or seem to make sence.
any help or theories appreciated.
Q |
Roofer Madness
Tickle My Null-Sac
745
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Posted - 2014.01.12 20:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not sure about the exact penalties but the second will give about 8% and the 3rd is almost pointless.
So yes, run complex.
I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
272
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Posted - 2014.01.12 20:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Skidmarx Black wrote:Basic question, Am I better to run 2x complex damage mods or a complex and an advanced.
I know there is a penalty for stacking but how much is the penalty. 10% 50% ???
if its any more than 50% realistically i am better off to run the advanced over a second complex due to it being cheaper.
Now , what about the factions damage mods you can get.
can I run a complex and then a faction complex and have no penalty or does the penalty still apply?
this of cource runs into the 3rd damage modifier I can now fit. what is the third penalty.
I have been told numerous times its 50% for the second and 90% for the third which doesnt seem right or seem to make sence.
any help or theories appreciated.
Q Go here: Stacking Penalties and punch in the numbers.
Sanguis Defense Syndicate: Recruitment now open for players of all skill levels
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Lt Royal
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2436
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Posted - 2014.01.12 20:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yep I use this site too. Its a shame its becoming outdated and hasn't been updated with the new vehicles and weaponry skills/stats.
Complex Damage Modifier multipliers, for anyone who is lazy: x1 = 10.00% x2 = 19.56% x3 = 26.38% x4 = 29.96% x5 = 31.34%
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
891
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Posted - 2014.01.12 20:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP wrote:NOTE L: stacking penalties apply to this module; the effectiveness of each additional module (after the first) that alters the same attribute will be reduced.
It doesn't mater if your second module is an basic, enhanced or complex, it's still going to get hit with the stacking penalty.
Stacking Penalties
1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness
Math for calculating damage mods:
For a mod with a 10% bonus, such as the damage mod, applyed to the damage stat of the std AR, the equation would be as follows:
(Includes stacking penalties to the fifth mod)
34.00(1.10) GÇó (1 + (.869GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.571GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.283GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.106GÇó.10)) = x
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
2127
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Posted - 2014.01.12 22:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:Yep I use this site too. Its a shame its becoming outdated and hasn't been updated with the new vehicles and weaponry skills/stats. Complex Damage Modifier multipliers, for anyone who is lazy: x1 = 10.00% x2 = 19.56% x3 = 26.38% x4 = 29.96% x5 = 31.34% Although the wiki multiplies modifiers from the same source together, I am pretty sure that they are added together. If the first module is 10% and the second is 8.69%, the total is 18.69% (addition), not 19.56% (multiplication). Proficiency and modifiers are multiplied together because they come from different sources.
Does Dust 514 just take all the individual modifiers and multiply them together? I'd expect stacking penalties to start at stage 2 for the first module if you had Proficiency, then, which I am pretty sure doesn't happen.
Would be nice to get some clarification.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Skidmarx Black
X Death Before Dishonour X
2
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Posted - 2014.01.12 22:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks guys ...
That makes somewhat more sence that what people have been telling me over the last few nights.
appreciate the help and advice.
now to start building my new beastie :) |
Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
2127
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Posted - 2014.01.12 22:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:CCP wrote:NOTE: stacking penalties apply to this module; the effectiveness of each additional module (after the first) that alters the same attribute will be reduced. It doesn't mater if your second module is a basic, enhanced or complex, it's still going to get hit with the stacking penalty. Stacking Penalties 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness Math for calculating damage mods: For a mod with a 10% bonus, such as the damage mod, applyed to the damage stat of the std AR, the equation would be as follows: (Includes stacking penalties to the fifth mod) 34.00(1.10) GÇó (1 + (.869GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.571GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.283GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.106GÇó.10)) = x This would answer my question. They are multiplied together going by that. Are you sure it is not this, after proficiency 5?
34.00 * 1.15 * (1 + .1 * .869 + .1 * .571 + .1 * .283 + .1 * .106)
If all effects are multiplied together, despite being from the same source, then the previous modules go a long way to negating the penalties of the later modules, severely dampening them, which is why I assumed they did the addition first.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
900
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Posted - 2014.01.12 23:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:CCP wrote:NOTE: stacking penalties apply to this module; the effectiveness of each additional module (after the first) that alters the same attribute will be reduced. It doesn't mater if your second module is a basic, enhanced or complex, it's still going to get hit with the stacking penalty. Stacking Penalties 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness Math for calculating damage mods: For a mod with a 10% bonus, such as the damage mod, applyed to the damage stat of the std AR, the equation would be as follows: (Includes stacking penalties to the fifth mod) 34.00(1.10) GÇó (1 + (.869GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.571GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.283GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.106GÇó.10)) = x This would answer my question. They are multiplied together going by that. Are you sure it is not this, after proficiency 5? 34.00 * 1.15 * (1 + .1 * .869 + .1 * .571 + .1 * .283 + .1 * .106)If all effects are multiplied together, despite being from the same source, then the previous modules go a long way to negating the penalties of the later modules, severely dampening them, which is why I assumed they did the addition first.
The calculations are all multiplicative. For proficiency the equation is thus, where x is equal to 1 + (.03 GÇó Lv):
34.00x(1.10) GÇó (1 + (.869GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.571GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.283GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.106GÇó.10)) = y
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
1092
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Posted - 2014.01.12 23:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Multi-modules penalty: 1st mod: c(1) = 100,000% effectiveness 2nd mod: c(2) = 86,912% effect 3d mod: c(3) = 57,104% effect 4th mod: c(4) = 28,247% effect 5th mod: c(5) = 10,599% effect 6th mod: c(6) = 2,999% effect
standard rule of thumb is don't stack more than 4 mods even if you're trying to go crazy.
all types of damage mod will accrue stacking penalties even if one is advanced and one is complex. |
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6410
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Posted - 2014.01.12 23:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
MATH 514
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
2131
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Posted - 2014.01.14 05:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:CCP wrote:NOTE: stacking penalties apply to this module; the effectiveness of each additional module (after the first) that alters the same attribute will be reduced. It doesn't mater if your second module is a basic, enhanced or complex, it's still going to get hit with the stacking penalty. Stacking Penalties 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness Math for calculating damage mods: For a mod with a 10% bonus, such as the damage mod, applyed to the damage stat of the std AR, the equation would be as follows: (Includes stacking penalties to the fifth mod) 34.00(1.10) GÇó (1 + (.869GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.571GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.283GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.106GÇó.10)) = x This would answer my question. They are multiplied together going by that. Are you sure it is not this, after proficiency 5? 34.00 * 1.15 * (1 + .1 * .869 + .1 * .571 + .1 * .283 + .1 * .106)If all effects are multiplied together, despite being from the same source, then the previous modules go a long way to negating the penalties of the later modules, severely dampening them, which is why I assumed they did the addition first. The calculations are all multiplicative. For proficiency the equation is thus, where x is equal to 1 + (.03 GÇó Lv): 34.00x(1.10) GÇó (1 + (.869GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.571GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.283GÇó.10)) GÇó (1 + (.106GÇó.10)) = y Thank you very much. The reason I thought it was addictive for positive modifiers such as damage and multiplicative for things such as resistance is that, while multiplication is necessary for resistance and profile (can't have -100% damage or -100% profile), multiplication of damage modifiers offers the opposite effect; without stacking penalties, damage modifiers would become exponential and every new one would be worth MORE than the last due to multiplying the effects of all previous modules. Even with penalties, the multiplication of modifiers from the same source seems to go a fair way in reducing the penalties. Most games I can think of use addition to prevent an exponential affect from same source modifiers. For example, Pok+¬mon starts with a modifier of 1.0 and adds 0.5 for every stat boost you obtain. You use Sword Dance twice, you get a 3.0 modifier. You don't get a 5.06 modifier.
Knowing this explains a lot about turret amps. The second amp adds MORE damage than the first one to the shot, even after penalties, due to the use of multiplication on each amp instead of adding same source modifier together first.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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