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Pete B Blood Unit 13 Zero-Day 73	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:57:00 - [1] - Quote But more that AV weapons are just too damn weak. Tank to tank balancing should have a mention though, that the Standards have no real upside compared to a militia as you can fit the same stuff, just more expensively, but what I want to talk about is dropsuit to tank balancing. Ok, you see a tank and it takes you out, and you want to get your own back, how do you go about it? Remote Explosives You can use remote explosives but then you have to get REALLY close and it takes a good 10 seconds to put 3 RE's on which would probably take out 80% of its HP. This isn't a great option as getting up close enough wouldn't go unnoticed as you can always see the back of a tank in the 3rd person view (which shouldn't be the case IMHO), the time it takes to plant the RE's is more than enough time for a tank to use its boosters or hardeners (although I think remote explosives and mines should ignore hardeners), and the damage done isn't enough compared to the work you put in. Plasma Cannon Should I really say anything. First you have to somehow fit the thing on a dropsuit and not just be a walking aluminium can on the battlefield with the amount of CPU it takes up leaving no space for armour or shields, then you have to survive with no battle rifle and only a side arm unless you can get direct hits on each other dropsuit, then you need to land a good 4 shots on a tank to take it out without it just boosting away, from on shot to another taking a good 8 seconds, more than enough time for a rail caldari to run off or a blaster gallante to turn around and ping you or shoot you. Swarm Launcher Ok, this is the best of a bad bunch, but its not without its problems. The same issue that affects the plasma is prevalent here, you have no battle rifle, and even worse, you can't touch dropsuits with this. Apart from having too small an ammo count or being too weak, everything else seems not as terrible (not good though). AV grenades I think AV grenades were pretty great before, 3 normal AV grenades could be enough to take out a militia tank which sounds about right, now though, not so much. TBH though, there should be a bit more variety in how to take out tanks. One or two high powered grenades, or 4 or 5 area control spamming grenades. Forge Gun The issue on this end is on the forge gun though. Taking out a tank, just fine, a tank trying to take out a forge gun in a hiding place, not so much, although if you lose a tank to a FG, surely an onfoot attack on the fatty should be done before bringing another out. Tank on Tank Didn't expect this did you? Well the issues that mainly reside here is that its a rock paper railgun game. Railgun takes out blaster, but not dropsuit AV's, and blasters takes out dropsuits and not railguns. Railgun on Railgun and blaster on Blaster is rather intense and fun and relies almost exclusively on preparation and skill. I have oversimplified, but in a nutshell, 9/10 times thats what it boils down to. Now I'm gonna ask, what do YOU think should be done to buff AV's or even bring a new AV systems in to take out tanks. Make tanks expensive and you simply remove them or make them prevelent, nerf tanks and no one would really use them, the problem lies more on AV.
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries 272	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:04:00 - [2] - Quote no dont buff AV it will make LAVs and dropships UP just decrease the HP and speed of tanks "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Pete B Blood Unit 13 Zero-Day 73	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:06:00 - [3] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: no dont buff AV it will make LAVs and dropships UP just decrease the HP and speed of tanks Its like you don't want tanks on the battlefield at all.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3380	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:14:00 - [4] - Quote As for fixing the Swarm Launcher, I'd just add an additional 110HP per missile and see how well that goes. Plasma Cannons need to have an HP increase for their direct damage. This wouldn't make them overpowered against infantry, as a direct hit always kills it's target. 1320HP of Direct Damage at STD 1650HP of Direct Damage at ADV 1980HP of Direct Damage at PRO And about your comment on Plasma Cannons and Swarm Launchers not having enough ammo, I believe that the max ammo amount needs to be increased, but keep in mind that they have a lower Max Ammo amount because the Forge Gun (which can only be fit onto heavies) does not have the ability to be Self-Sufficient through the use of Nanohives; while Swarm Launchers and Plasma Cannons can. Along with this, buffing AV may require Dropships to be buffed accordingly. CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR Scrubs and Tank Spammers, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
Dericha A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote AV should be meaningful. Last night, I had 2 proto swarm launchers and a forge gun on a tank and it's shield was back up (on a madruger) before we could reload. Same went for Pythons. I'm not anti-vehicle. I'm anti- invincible vehicle.
Jason Pearson 3858	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:27:00 - [6] - Quote Dericha wrote: AV should be meaningful. Last night, I had 2 proto swarm launchers and a forge gun on a tank and it's shield was back up (on a madruger) before we could reload. Same went for Pythons. I'm not anti-vehicle. I'm anti- invincible vehicle. Now that sounds like major bullshit. I'm sorry but I'm running a single forge and killing tanks, and being pushed back by forges and swarms, but only when they're above standard. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:41:00 - [7] - Quote And large missiles just suck in every case bar it's niche in killing somas. Killing infantry? Virtually impossible to do so reliably. Rails? Lose every time. Shield tanks? Completely walled. Armor? You better be packing dual hardeners to outlast an armor hardener or at least use ATs or better with reload skills. To fix them: better accuracy, shotgun style reload (individual missiles reload, not the full clip), longer range, and an EM variant. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/1
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2205	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:49:00 - [8] - Quote OP you forgot about movement AV players do not move, they just spawn with AV and expect to kill it and when it drives away they complain Intelligence is OP
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries 272	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:54:00 - [9] - Quote Pete B wrote: darkiller240 wrote: no dont buff AV it will make LAVs and dropships UP just decrease the HP and speed of tanks Its like you don't want tanks on the battlefield at all. not to a high extent but tanks are to fast and have just a bit to much HP im talking about a couple hundred HP decrease "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 451	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:56:00 - [10] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Dericha wrote: AV should be meaningful. Last night, I had 2 proto swarm launchers and a forge gun on a tank and it's shield was back up (on a madruger) before we could reload. Same went for Pythons. I'm not anti-vehicle. I'm anti- invincible vehicle. Now that sounds like major bullshit. I'm sorry but I'm running a single forge and killing tanks, and being pushed back by forges and swarms, but only when they're above standard. Its always possible to kill stupid fellows. Smart tankers were able to run tank profitable before 1.6 and smart AV is still able to take out bad fitted or stupid HAV pilots. But in both cases thats not the rule. Prior to 1.7 only really well fitted and smart HAV pilots were able to be succesfull while any one with swarm, av nades or forges was good at av (because AV was slightly OP). Now its just the other way round only the real good fitted and smart AV is able to take out HAV's regulary but any one can be good with a 0 SP militia tank. Both situations prior to 1.7 and now with 1.7 are wrong. What CCP needs to do is change things step by step a SLIGHT buff to AV ( to see how things evolve) and a small nerf to HAV's price.

Jason Pearson 3858	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:01:00 - [11] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: And large missiles just suck in every case bar it's niche in killing somas. Killing infantry? Virtually impossible to do so reliably. Rails? Lose every time. Shield tanks? Completely walled. Armor? You better be packing dual hardeners to outlast an armor hardener or at least use ATs or better with reload skills. To fix them: better accuracy, shotgun style reload (individual missiles reload, not the full clip), longer range, and an EM variant. lol, XTs win everything, get out. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 419	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:05:00 - [12] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: And large missiles just suck in every case bar it's niche in killing somas. Killing infantry? Virtually impossible to do so reliably. Rails? Lose every time. Shield tanks? Completely walled. Armor? You better be packing dual hardeners to outlast an armor hardener or at least use ATs or better with reload skills. To fix them: better accuracy, shotgun style reload (individual missiles reload, not the full clip), longer range, and an EM variant. Shotgun style reload, please god yes. The biggest drawback is the HUGE reload time. This is what gets me in trouble the most. Sure I could drop a maddie with hardeners, if I could reload before he freaking reps back all his health. The only reliable way to ensure kills with missiles, is to either run double hardeners or run a damage mod stacked with hardeners. Otherwise, pretty much everything is going to rep up before you get a chance to fire again. And even then, missing just one missile, is the difference between a loss, or a tie. (Psh, hardly win with missiles anymore, been sticking with blasters and rails.) Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 419	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:07:00 - [13] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: And large missiles just suck in every case bar it's niche in killing somas. Killing infantry? Virtually impossible to do so reliably. Rails? Lose every time. Shield tanks? Completely walled. Armor? You better be packing dual hardeners to outlast an armor hardener or at least use ATs or better with reload skills. To fix them: better accuracy, shotgun style reload (individual missiles reload, not the full clip), longer range, and an EM variant. lol, XTs win everything, get out. I wish! Though I will say, they f some infantry up. Easy to get direct hits with these things. The only thing I find the missiles good for is the maddie. Even then, I can't break through a good setup, duel hardeners or stacked reps. Nuff Said
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1195	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:29:00 - [14] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: And large missiles just suck in every case bar it's niche in killing somas. Killing infantry? Virtually impossible to do so reliably. Rails? Lose every time. Shield tanks? Completely walled. Armor? You better be packing dual hardeners to outlast an armor hardener or at least use ATs or better with reload skills. To fix them: better accuracy, shotgun style reload (individual missiles reload, not the full clip), longer range, and an EM variant. With a damage mod and hitting the weak spot I can burn through dual hardeners and I only use XT's with maxed reload when I run missile difficult to kill infantry yes impossible no it's just a skill weapon Shield tanks ya it's pretty hard to win Rails if they are armor or have are paper cannons it's certainly more than possible I would like shotgun reload and a little less dispersion with maybe a little more splash radius but it's not completely awful. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5587	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:47:00 - [15] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: And large missiles just suck in every case bar it's niche in killing somas. Killing infantry? Virtually impossible to do so reliably. Rails? Lose every time. Shield tanks? Completely walled. Armor? You better be packing dual hardeners to outlast an armor hardener or at least use ATs or better with reload skills. To fix them: better accuracy, shotgun style reload (individual missiles reload, not the full clip), longer range, and an EM variant. lol, XTs win everything, get out. Shut Up Jason just because I'm too scared to fight you...... Sig wanted......
Scheneighnay McBob Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3548	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:53:00 - [16] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: no dont buff AV it will make LAVs and dropships UP just decrease the HP and speed of tanks This. My best python was one-shotted by a proto forge. We used to have a time machine
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 574	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:56:00 - [17] - Quote i have a bettere chance with double damage modded missile tanks against armor tanks than i do against shield taks. i find rails better in that area. i never needed a godly good set up to pwn.. as ive ive been playing with crappy setups as in mlt fits. and doing well for what? since ive started playing? put majority of my sp into core skills and weaponry skills by unlocking new stuff to give myself a wider range of weaponry. i hear stories of ppl having and extremely hard time taking down a mlt tank with a proto small missile turret on a dropship. (which is stupid becuase i did that same thing rather easily with a mlt missile turret against a mlt tank last week from an unfitted viper.) ive breaken through ppl using duel hardeners with ease. want to guess.. here it is.. its that glass cannon over there. a sica with 2 damage mods.basically has the power of a rapid fire breach forge gun..but overheats.. when i use majority of those large turrets i find myself firing the turrets in burst intervals to prevent overheating but when it does. u die. u can fire it fast to quickly take out some vehicles but against something alittle tougher fireing and hitting while they overheat on u puts in an advantage. with missiles ive found it needs to be used in a certain way. that barrage of 12 missiles. it freaks your enemy tank out so much they might run away in some cases. ive found thoselarge missile turrets seem to do a massive amount of dps/high alpha damage for a short period of time. then has to pull back to reload. u remember those large missile turret installations? they are back to being burst only now. because when 1.7 had first arrived they funtioned just like our current large missile turrt mounted on the hav. that installation annihilated everything extremely fast. more powerful than railguns seeing as to how it could be fired for ever without a worry. ive broken through tripple hardened set ups but during those times ive needed a little av assistance to do it..or the oither way around has i can breack through majority of the hp opening it up for av as the finisher because during that time my turret would probably be in cooldown. i find tanking to be alot more interesting than the way it was before the update hit. as my mlt tank in 1.6 was fitted to where it had the base amount of shields and armor we see right now in 1.7. and that thing even had a base resistance of 10-20%. every type of av anhilated it the nades being the worst of em. when i first heard of 1.7 i was a little fearful of what would happen to my current set up but when it hit i found the new bases to be at the level of my old fitted soma levels so i think of it as a nice change. there are no more god setups for tanks now. and they all rnt paper thin. (the glass cannons are though.) the weakest of the tanks which is mlt. r a little more durable than before but i can still solo them. the problem i had with av was the fact all some1 had to do was chuck 3 av nades and the tank would die. av nades alone shouldnt be able to kill a tank. unless a mass amount was thrown. maybe 8 or so. thats just the way i feel. current playeres that i see which bring out the swarm launchers and forge guns i see just stand still and make them selves easy targets for just about everything including the tank when they move around like poping in and out of cover they are alot more difficult to take down. plus i think ive still been seeing that one glitch where u can lock on with a swarm and just pop out to fire. which was another massive problem i had back before 1.7. its still an annoyance to me sometimes but i find it to be less of an issues since tanks feell like they can actually tank now. std tank id say they got as bit of a nerf on this 1.7 buff end and it made majority of tanks a little more balanced in tank vs tank combat. the better fit still wins alot of the time now (unless the pilot with the good fit sucks). as for tanks with stacked reps. i dont think ive come accross any of em yet so i wouldnt know.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 339	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:08:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: As for fixing the Swarm Launcher, I'd just add an additional 110HP per missile and see how well that goes. Plasma Cannons need to have an HP increase for their direct damage. This wouldn't make them overpowered against infantry, as a direct hit always kills it's target. 1320HP of Direct Damage at STD 1650HP of Direct Damage at ADV 1980HP of Direct Damage at PRO And about your comment on Plasma Cannons and Swarm Launchers not having enough ammo, I believe that the max ammo amount needs to be increased, but keep in mind that they have a lower Max Ammo amount because the Forge Gun (which can only be fit onto heavies) does not have the ability to be Self-Sufficient through the use of Nanohives; while Swarm Launchers and Plasma Cannons can. Along with this, buffing AV may require Dropships to be buffed accordingly. swarm buff=hell no tanks will be a tad bit weaker than 1.6, as 1.6, 2 hardeners= 50%? just 250 per missile or do my buff thread I use a tablet so beware of typos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 339	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:11:00 - [19] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: darkiller240 wrote: no dont buff AV it will make LAVs and dropships UP just decrease the HP and speed of tanks This. My best python was one-shotted by a proto forge. overpowered breach varient I use a tablet so beware of typos
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3390	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:20:00 - [20] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: no dont buff AV it will make LAVs and dropships UP just decrease the HP and speed of tanks LAVs should not survive PRO AV with ease. Just buff Dropship HP accordingly. It would save us a lot of time and make things easier to balance when we introduce more types of vehicles. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.



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