DUST Search - Support/logibro Request

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Dj grammer wrote:

Korvin Lomont wrote:

deepfried salad gilliam wrote:

it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op

Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from being OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaults get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well.

What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level.

After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore...

From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assaults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assault's level (maybe slightly faster)...

Assaults gets about 20 or more HP/s on shields (Minmatar being the only Assault with passive armor repair @ 1Hp/s).

5 HP/s, wow we are self repairing at the speed of light right? Even at 5 HP/s, it takes FOREVER getting all of the lost armor back. Especially in this update

Hey you give the Logis the Gallente bonus as a whole, it will be enough to kill some of the people using the Logis as Assaults.

On the CPU/PG, the answer would have to be no. Even with the Gallente Bonus, you will still need all the space you can get on the suit just to keep yourself alive while repairing and reviving others. The Assaults only have the one equipment slot meant for themselves and no one else. Also keep in mind that some of the assault bonuses are reflected based on what type of weapon you use and etc. An example of the CPU/PG nerf, Caldari Logistics. This punished the true LogiBros using that suit badly due to QQing.

On the High Low slots, again no. All you essentially did is move the problem not fixing the problem. The High Low slots are not the problem to begin with anyways. Also it will somewhat kill how the drop suits differ from one another.

Ok I have played a gall Logi for more than one year right now, and the current Logi concept is a stupid at least to my understanding of a logi.

I personally dont't see the 5HP/sec as OP thing (as I mentioned above) but the point is lots of Logi suits currently run nothing apart from damage mods and armor plates this seem to be a problem for some assault players. While I don't think this is such a big problem I can see there IS a problem.

I have played around with some possible solutions but it comes everytime down to two major aspects the amount of slots and the high CPU/PG rating both can easily be abused.

Now throw in that the assault is just a basic suit with a skill bonus I can understand why some assault players are upset.

So with y suggestions you will get a HUGE bonus to equipment fitting (25% per Logi skill and another 25% per equipment skill) for your choosen equipment, so you can still fit lots of equipment but you won't be able to outtank an assault player in the same way it is now possible.

When Logis get a speed boost they should do fine even with a H/L slot less. In fact that would open even more possibilities for logis in my opinion.

Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words:

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SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 23	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:24:00 - [1] - Quote Think CCP, think before you adjust our class out of existence. This game can evolve into a truly team based type of game if you can manipulate the various issues without morphing the different suits into one big class.Put the hammer away and try using a brush instead.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 370	Posted - 2014.01.07 01:34:00 - [2] - Quote it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Proud Christian one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 478	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:30:00 - [3] - Quote Logi bonus 10% reduction to equipment cpu/pg cost per level Racial bonus Caldari get extenders Gallente get reps Mini keep hack bonus Amarr get plate bonus Drop cpu/pg a bit, and maybe a slot or two Retains new edens lore and gives logis a purpose without making them OP... I dont understand why its so hard to figure out
Leo Look Shadow Company HQ 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:43:00 - [4] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op I'm sorry but the 5hps is not op it is what keeps your healer in the game you do know this only starts healing after some time after the player stops getting hit I don't see the healing when I am being hit. if the PG/CPU is lowed then the equipment PG/CPU needs to be lowed also. other wise you will lose your heals. if this is done right then maybe you will end the slyer logi witch as a real logi I like to see end but not at the cost of me not being about to keep my team alive and killing red's
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 4	Posted - 2014.01.07 07:33:00 - [5] - Quote why not just not allow logi from putting any damage mods of any kind on them? a logi is not there to do damage it is there to repair teammates that have been damaged. other then that leave the logi class alone. its bad enough that the suits are basically large target signs on us as it is. logis job is this.. 1 repair tool to rep damaged suits 1 nanopen to revive people 1 scanner 1 nanohives for ammo some swap out gear to get more hives, or a uplink.. etc. the rest is mostly tank.. buffer at that. no damage mods, no one will use as a super assault any more.. problem solved. this over reaction to anything and the demand for either buffs or nerfs to make suits fit your play style really has to end. this is a game of niche play styles just like in it's big brother EVE. the game needs scouts to locate enemies and hack stuff it needs logi to keep people alive and fail that.. bring them back to life and rep them for more fights it needs assaults and heavies to pound the enemies man it even needs snipers for area denial. hell it also needs the vehicles for transport and heavy support. is there a quick fix.. no, people will always have some issue they don't like... well find a counter for it and stop the endless that's not fair nerf/buff this now BS.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1965	Posted - 2014.01.07 08:02:00 - [6] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Logi bonus 10% reduction to equipment cpu/pg cost per level Racial bonus Caldari get extenders Gallente get reps Mini keep hack bonus Amarr get plate bonus Drop cpu/pg a bit, and maybe a slot or two Retains new edens lore and gives logis a purpose without making them OP... I dont understand why its so hard to figure out This^ A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 439	Posted - 2014.01.07 08:58:00 - [7] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from beeing OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaulst get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well. What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level. After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore... From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assaults level (maybe slightly faster)...
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 84	Posted - 2014.01.07 09:33:00 - [8] - Quote A fellow LogiBro here, I want to ask everyone a series of questions: 1.) Have you actually played in a logistics suit? 2.) Do you know how much of a SP and ISK sink it is? Not to mention the time going into it and the problems faced on the daily basis? 3.) Are you asking to nerf Logistics because of people using them as an assault suit? If you had answered no to #1: Before asking to nerf the suit, play in the suit. You will see that yea we have a good amount of PG/CPU. I use mine to equip what a LogiBro needs to keep the troops alive. Here's a little hint as of how Logi Assaults are made, they do not put anything in their equipment slots besides nano hives. You should also notice that we do not get a sidearm with the exception of Amarr. This means if we get caught reloading or without ammunition, we are good as dead. So before asking to nerf it, try it out. I know a good amount of people asking for nerfs without trying it out themselves. If you answered no or I do not know to #2: Again from a LogiBro, let me run you some numbers real quick. Dropsuit SP @ 2,760,960 just to get proto. Dropsuit Upgrades @ 9,557,640 just to max out total health, max out CPU/PG AND getting all the equipment needed to keep troops alive and in the fight. So just the two by themselves cost a player 12,318,600 SP just to run a Proto LogiBro without counting weaponry. The ISK cost is worse, Just to run Proto on a Logistics suit, the minimum cost is about 150k ISK. SO 12 million SP and 150K ISK just to run proto LogiBro. The time going into it can be a stressful one. (a logi is not there to do damage it is there to repair teammates that have been damaged.) Majority of the time when we see troops calling out for us, we try not to rush there immediately. Why? we need to make sure the area is clear before reviving you, otherwise all we would hear from you is 'stop reviving me because they will just kill me again!' And wouldn't you know it I'm dead now too out 150k ISK. There are other time when the Logi is laying down cover fire for you after reviving you. If we are not meant to do damage then all we are is a big yellow banana target and that also means we cannot clear the area to revive you. We also cannot carry everything needed, so there are times a Logi will revive you but wont repair you because they could be scanning or setting up remote explosives on the objectives. If you answered yes to #3: It is not all black and white. What? Logis cannot do damage and your suit is supposed to be superior to the Logistics Class? That question is comparable to myself saying 'that guy killed me. must be hacking or lag'. If we were not meant to do damage then we are not meant to kill meaning we are not helping at a maximum rate. Healing and supplying the team is 60%, where's the other 40? The other 40 goes to killing the enemy and having your back taking on groups of them. Also keep in mind that if we need to clear an area before reviving you, we need to do damage to ensure that the area is cleared. TL:DR? Try playing as a LogiBro. Invest time, stress, a lot of SP and ISK to run a LogiBro. Not everything is back and white, a logi needs to kill to ensure the area is clear. One the area is clear, they can revive anyone down with ease. Think outside the box rather than staying stuck in the box. Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words: YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 84	Posted - 2014.01.07 09:48:00 - [9] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from being OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaults get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well. What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level. After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore... From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assaults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assault's level (maybe slightly faster)... Assaults gets about 20 or more HP/s on shields (Minmatar being the only Assault with passive armor repair @ 1Hp/s). 5 HP/s, wow we are self repairing at the speed of light right? Even at 5 HP/s, it takes FOREVER getting all of the lost armor back. Especially in this update Hey you give the Logis the Gallente bonus as a whole, it will be enough to kill some of the people using the Logis as Assaults. On the CPU/PG, the answer would have to be no. Even with the Gallente Bonus, you will still need all the space you can get on the suit just to keep yourself alive while repairing and reviving others. The Assaults only have the one equipment slot meant for themselves and no one else. Also keep in mind that some of the assault bonuses are reflected based on what type of weapon you use and etc. An example of the CPU/PG nerf, Caldari Logistics. This punished the true LogiBros using that suit badly due to QQing. On the High Low slots, again no. All you essentially did is move the problem not fixing the problem. The High Low slots are not the problem to begin with anyways. Also it will somewhat kill how the drop suits differ from one another. Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words: YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 439	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:24:00 - [10] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from being OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaults get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well. What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level. After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore... From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assaults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assault's level (maybe slightly faster)... Assaults gets about 20 or more HP/s on shields (Minmatar being the only Assault with passive armor repair @ 1Hp/s). 5 HP/s, wow we are self repairing at the speed of light right? Even at 5 HP/s, it takes FOREVER getting all of the lost armor back. Especially in this update Hey you give the Logis the Gallente bonus as a whole, it will be enough to kill some of the people using the Logis as Assaults. On the CPU/PG, the answer would have to be no. Even with the Gallente Bonus, you will still need all the space you can get on the suit just to keep yourself alive while repairing and reviving others. The Assaults only have the one equipment slot meant for themselves and no one else. Also keep in mind that some of the assault bonuses are reflected based on what type of weapon you use and etc. An example of the CPU/PG nerf, Caldari Logistics. This punished the true LogiBros using that suit badly due to QQing. On the High Low slots, again no. All you essentially did is move the problem not fixing the problem. The High Low slots are not the problem to begin with anyways. Also it will somewhat kill how the drop suits differ from one another. Ok I have played a gall Logi for more than one year right now, and the current Logi concept is a stupid at least to my understanding of a logi. I personally dont't see the 5HP/sec as OP thing (as I mentioned above) but the point is lots of Logi suits currently run nothing apart from damage mods and armor plates this seem to be a problem for some assault players. While I don't think this is such a big problem I can see there IS a problem. I have played around with some possible solutions but it comes everytime down to two major aspects the amount of slots and the high CPU/PG rating both can easily be abused. Now throw in that the assault is just a basic suit with a skill bonus I can understand why some assault players are upset. So with y suggestions you will get a HUGE bonus to equipment fitting (25% per Logi skill and another 25% per equipment skill) for your choosen equipment, so you can still fit lots of equipment but you won't be able to outtank an assault player in the same way it is now possible. When Logis get a speed boost they should do fine even with a H/L slot less. In fact that would open even more possibilities for logis in my opinion.

RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 623	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:40:00 - [11] - Quote Meh, every change they are going to do based on the current crappy fundamentals of the game are going to suck. I read they are going to make DUST a good experience for the FPS-player, hopefully they will finally change the fundamentals.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 84	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:41:00 - [12] - Quote You also have to keep in mind that moving the H/L slots will make little difference in the types of suits (STD->ADV->PRO). Amarr just obtained their 4th low slot since proto and advance were the same thing minus the sidearm. Failing to see how a speed boost would help. I'm agreeing with the Gallente Logi bonus as an overall Logi bonus. Only problem is who is going to rep the logi? Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words: YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 84	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:42:00 - [13] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Dj grammer wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from being OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaults get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well. What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level. After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore... From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assaults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assault's level (maybe slightly faster)... Assaults gets about 20 or more HP/s on shields (Minmatar being the only Assault with passive armor repair @ 1Hp/s). 5 HP/s, wow we are self repairing at the speed of light right? Even at 5 HP/s, it takes FOREVER getting all of the lost armor back. Especially in this update Hey you give the Logis the Gallente bonus as a whole, it will be enough to kill some of the people using the Logis as Assaults. On the CPU/PG, the answer would have to be no. Even with the Gallente Bonus, you will still need all the space you can get on the suit just to keep yourself alive while repairing and reviving others. The Assaults only have the one equipment slot meant for themselves and no one else. Also keep in mind that some of the assault bonuses are reflected based on what type of weapon you use and etc. An example of the CPU/PG nerf, Caldari Logistics. This punished the true LogiBros using that suit badly due to QQing. On the High Low slots, again no. All you essentially did is move the problem not fixing the problem. The High Low slots are not the problem to begin with anyways. Also it will somewhat kill how the drop suits differ from one another. Ok I have played a gall Logi for more than one year right now, and the current Logi concept is a stupid at least to my understanding of a logi. I personally dont't see the 5HP/sec as OP thing (as I mentioned above) but the point is lots of Logi suits currently run nothing apart from damage mods and armor plates this seem to be a problem for some assault players. While I don't think this is such a big problem I can see there IS a problem. I have played around with some possible solutions but it comes everytime down to two major aspects the amount of slots and the high CPU/PG rating both can easily be abused. Now throw in that the assault is just a basic suit with a skill bonus I can understand why some assault players are upset. So with y suggestions you will get a HUGE bonus to equipment fitting (25% per Logi skill and another 25% per equipment skill) for your choosen equipment, so you can still fit lots of equipment but you won't be able to outtank an assault player in the same way it is now possible. When Logis get a speed boost they should do fine even with a H/L slot less. In fact that would open even more possibilities for logis in my opinion. In the end, it comes down to having people play test everything Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words: YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 366	Posted - 2014.01.07 12:07:00 - [14] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134173&find=unread if you haven't had the time to check this out, please do so now. Cheer up a bit will you (n+ëGùòpâ«Gùò)n+ë:n+Ñn+ƒG£º:n+Ñn+ƒG£º Personal best K/A/D in 1.7 26/5/1
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 23	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:30:00 - [15] - Quote CCP tried to address the slayer Cal logi by reducing the CPU of the suits,many slayers just moved on to the next best fitting leaving us support logis with a subpar suit to fit the proper equipment. History seems to be repeating itself and this thread is a call for some ideas out of the box type thinking. Most of these suggestions reduce and/or take away something from the logi class which penalizes the support logis (once again) and does not solve the problem. Slayers will us any advantage they can to have an edge, and will just move to the next fitting. Maybe the community can come up with a way to revamp the logi class to make it unique without nerfing it into extinction. Defensive shield skills portable drone/turrets could help if our damage potential is reduced. Yes other games already use these gimicks, so lets see if we can come up with better alternatves rather than just nerfing us into the dust.


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