DUST Search - [Feedback] How to balance Swarm Launchers

Foundation Seldon wrote:

sanxit interfectorem MORTIMOR wrote:

big hint use them right

Does using them right involve trying to find the 10-20 second window between multiple cycling hardeners as you try to catch up to the Speedy Gonzalez Tanks as they retreat safely to their redline and organizing an underwater ballet of synchronization with 3 other players all while dodging the infantry slaying equipped people immediately in your vicinity?

I just do the sensible thing and call in a rail tank.

Mortedeamor wrote:

meanwhile while you qq those of us with balls are slaughtering unskilled scrubby tankers without swarms stfu and shove off i for one do not want it easier to kill vehicles alone. atm its just the right amount of difficulty to solo a tank. you new players and old av just forgot how to run your spec shove off no one wants easy mode av again

Glad to see that you're not any different here than on IRC. To be clear I'm a vehicle user myself and someone that's been using Tanks in particular since Uprising. I played through Replication's free tank barrage and the dominance of the Sagaris and Surya and I played through the very AV dominant incarnation that was Uprising's original release.

What am I really asking in this post? For STD Swarms to be brought back to their Pre-1.7 damage output and for the tier progression for leveling up into the weapon to be toned down. You'll have to explain to me how that's unreasonable before your next kneejerk post.

why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing

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Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie 348	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:52:00 - [1] - Quote There are two main problems with the Swarm Launcher that I believe should be addressed. 1. The baseline power, what should be available immediately from MLT/STD levels 2. The progression among tiers, how the weapon scales as you level up into it. I'm of the opinion that, with the current damage levels, Proto swarms are the only Swarms that truly represent a threat to any vehicle that can be called out on the field. They're the only level of swarms that do enough damage in enough time to be worth doing more than laughing, turning on your hardeners, and gunning down the person using a weapon that costs more than my entire tank. Is it acceptable for a weapon that leaves you completely vulnerable to all the other infantry on the field and is dedicated purely to the act of taking out vehicles to be useful only at the prototype levels? If anything I believe that, if PRO Swarms are the only variant that are able to even barely act in their intended role, they should be the basis for the damage output we expect from the very first level we put into them. The damage output of proto swarms should be applied to the Militia / STD level. The immediate problem that comes with this thinking is the way the Swarm Launcher progresses through the tiers, one extra missile per tier accounts for a significant increase in the overall damage output of the weapon. If we're giving the STD Swarms PRO damage output with 4 missiles (basically rolling them back to what they were pre-1.7 with 330*4 Damage per volley) then they again become a weapon that will have its damage output be significantly outpaced by the higher tier variants of the weapon. From STD -> ADV your damage output increases by 25%, from ADV -> PRO it's going up 20% This far outpaces the damage output increase seen in pretty much any other weapon type as you progress through its tiers. The fix to this progression however seems obvious to me. Lower tier Swarms have higher damage per individual missile but lower total damage. Higher tier Swarms have lower damage per missile but higher total damage In this way we can close the gap between STD and Proto variants of this weapon and make sure that Standard level swarms are useful without turning the weapon into a monstrosity as you skill into it further. Tankers, before you get your panties in a bunch what I'm essentially asking is as such : Bring Swarm damage for STD levels back to what they were pre 1.7 (current proto level) and then adjusting the damage output per missile to make sure they don't get out of hand from that baseline. Saga v. Methana Balance
sanxit interfectorem MORTIMOR Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:55:00 - [2] - Quote big hint use them right
Mortedeamor 1184	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:58:00 - [3] - Quote meanwhile while you qq those of us with balls are slaughtering unskilled scrubby tankers without swarms stfu and shove off i for one do not want it easier to kill vehicles alone. atm its just the right amount of difficulty to solo a tank. you new players and old av just forgot how to run your spec shove off no one wants easy mode av again why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:06:00 - [4] - Quote Boost the damage on standard swarms and range on assault swarms. That way if you want to deal damage you have to work for it and if you just want to out range them you can. Before it was just a 1 clip win and that was BS.
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie 348	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:09:00 - [5] - Quote sanxit interfectorem MORTIMOR wrote: big hint use them right Does using them right involve trying to find the 10-20 second window between multiple cycling hardeners as you try to catch up to the Speedy Gonzalez Tanks as they retreat safely to their redline and organizing an underwater ballet of synchronization with 3 other players all while dodging the infantry slaying equipped people immediately in your vicinity? I just do the sensible thing and call in a rail tank. Mortedeamor wrote: meanwhile while you qq those of us with balls are slaughtering unskilled scrubby tankers without swarms stfu and shove off i for one do not want it easier to kill vehicles alone. atm its just the right amount of difficulty to solo a tank. you new players and old av just forgot how to run your spec shove off no one wants easy mode av again Glad to see that you're not any different here than on IRC. To be clear I'm a vehicle user myself and someone that's been using Tanks in particular since Uprising. I played through Replication's free tank barrage and the dominance of the Sagaris and Surya and I played through the very AV dominant incarnation that was Uprising's original release. What am I really asking in this post? For STD Swarms to be brought back to their Pre-1.7 damage output and for the tier progression for leveling up into the weapon to be toned down. You'll have to explain to me how that's unreasonable before your next kneejerk post. Saga v. Methana Balance
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 228	Posted - 2014.01.06 14:33:00 - [6] - Quote STOP BRINGING UP BROKEN THING STUPID AV! multiple reps and multiple hardeners are broken, i will now ignore all your posts like every other av who suck so they bring it up as an excuse because they have no argument otherwise. I use a tablet so beware of typos
Mortedeamor 1186	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:24:00 - [7] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: sanxit interfectorem MORTIMOR wrote: big hint use them right Does using them right involve trying to find the 10-20 second window between multiple cycling hardeners as you try to catch up to the Speedy Gonzalez Tanks as they retreat safely to their redline and organizing an underwater ballet of synchronization with 3 other players all while dodging the infantry slaying equipped people immediately in your vicinity? I just do the sensible thing and call in a rail tank. Mortedeamor wrote: meanwhile while you qq those of us with balls are slaughtering unskilled scrubby tankers without swarms stfu and shove off i for one do not want it easier to kill vehicles alone. atm its just the right amount of difficulty to solo a tank. you new players and old av just forgot how to run your spec shove off no one wants easy mode av again Glad to see that you're not any different here than on IRC. To be clear I'm a vehicle user myself and someone that's been using Tanks in particular since Uprising. I played through Replication's free tank barrage and the dominance of the Sagaris and Surya and I played through the very AV dominant incarnation that was Uprising's original release. What am I really asking in this post? For STD Swarms to be brought back to their Pre-1.7 damage output and for the tier progression for leveling up into the weapon to be toned down. You'll have to explain to me how that's unreasonable before your next kneejerk post. well lets see cycling hardeners means they are running passive 30% res with the average av weapon doing 1200 dmg (way lowballed you doing 800dmg a shot..tanks hp idles around 6k so omg gasps with weak av you have to land 8 shots with hardeners omg so hard. 2 avers can easily outdps a perma hardened tank..they just need to work together as for my soma that i slaighter in it requires that u deal 6 k dmg and has0 hardeners.. the fact is mlt tank spam is viable because very few av are capable of landing more than 1 shot. yesterday i got witha squad of dark legion jastad invited me from my the sentinels channel we que shotted tanks for about 2 hours with no issue why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
SHANN da MAN D3LTA FORC3 166	Posted - 2014.01.18 17:14:00 - [8] - Quote See my Post HERE for a Swarm Balance Proposal that addresses the Swarm Progression of Damage Problem, while not overpowering Swarm Launchers in general. nothing to see here ... move along
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 846	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:52:00 - [9] - Quote I've been saying for a while that the firing mechanic should be changed to something similar to how the real life Javelin anti tank system works. Missiles go straight up into the air before turning and flying directly at the target at high speed. Tanks can still use cover when fired at but have to use it smarter and not just go behind a small hill. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2014.02.02 04:30:00 - [10] - Quote I have no skill points invested in tanks, yes I use a pure militia build, that being said, during a ambush match I was able to get top score, die 0 times and I got near the top amount of kills in the match too, with just a militia tank. Yes the enemy did try shooting regular guns at me, they tried hitting me with swarm launchers, the swarm launcher only knocked off my shields, they were completely laughable as I was driving a Soma which is the armor based. It was one of the easiest matches for me personally because the enemy could not strike back effectively against me as a second tank on my team kept them from being able to land anything bigger then an LAV. Now if I can dominant a match with zero skill points and a very cheap tank their is an issue. I'm not saying that tanks need to be more expensive, just the counter measures against a milita tank should be more effective. Against a better tank and someone actually putting in the skill points they should be less effective. We don't need to go back to the days of tanks being paper tigers, but what is currently happening isn't acceptable either. Possibly Swarm launchers could get back some of the range and damage potential, not back to where it was though. The swarm launcher has only one purpose that is to kill vehicles and it leaves an infintry man very vunerable to fire as all they have left is a side arm weapon which can not shoot nearly as far as nearly all of the light weapons. Also, the more missles that are fired out of the swarm launcher the more likely they are to hit terrain obstacles as the path finding is very very weak for swarm launchers, my arch nemisis is the minor bump in the road that my swarm missiles love hitting.



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