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Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
608
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Posted - 2014.01.04 05:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I wrote this after a conversation with Comander Wang at fanfest last year. I am posting it publicly now as I would like to see action in this area, and I think the community could help. it is by no means the best work, and is no way professional level, but I felt that at this time I should publish it.
Assumptions
war points earned
kills = 50
assists = 25
support = all other war points
it is understood that squad orders will change the amount of war points gained by actions, however these points are defined as support points since they are awards for following orders and supporting your team.
isk efficiency per match = reward + salvage estimated value / estimated value of gear lost
Kill to assist ratio: have not yet had time to study this data as we have not gotten it yet, may be more effective as a assist kill ratio, but need to study further.
Direction
The new end of battle screen is a step in the right direction. However, it needs to be taken a step further. These reports need to be made available after you have left the battle, or if you have lost connection and were not able to return to the match afterward. Either setup the report similar to kill mails in eve, so that they have their own section on the character sheet and then are broken down from there, or sent as a mail to the player with a breakdown, though I think the first option is better than the second, the second would probably be easier to implement in the short term. Now if a mail is the step taken there needs to be an opt in/out option, so if players don't care they are not bombarded with information they do not want.
For corporations these reports, as well as the statistics for the corp itself should be derived only from corp matches. While using the cumulative results of the corps members as the corp stats, this method allows the instant matches to heavily over shadow the corp matches where the corp it self is acting as opposed to the players acting, either on their own or in small groups. Any where that players would be acting as a corp and not as an individual a corporation battle report should be generated, though this would not stop player after match reports for themselves. These corp reports would form the basis of the corp stats, and thus the data for the public, either on the leader boards for bragging rights or for eve corps looking to hire mercs to take/defend planets within their sov space.
Adding a statistics tab, either to the player section or to the social section near the leader-boards. Where an expanded after battle report, for players stats would live. The KDR over time graph is great, but it needs to be scalable. In the after battle report it could be limited to a week, or the last few matches, so that the graph would still be readable. However, the stats page it needs to be able to be show data over the last year, six months, three months, etc. similar to the way the market data can be scaled in eve. This would allow the player to see both short term and long term changes. And while a high/low channel might not be needed, a moving and predictive average might, depending on if it can be done in a clear manner without confusing people. Graphing KDR, isk efficiency, and other stats is a must, but this can be challenging to do either on one graph or without making the entire screen a mess of graphs and overloading people. Making the graphs appear depending on which stat is being looked at at the moment would be an effective UI solution, but might be hard to do from a coding standpoint. How I see it working is a player highlights a stat and this data is then used to generate the main graph on the page depending on what time scale the player has set as well. An additional option would be a sliding data selection so a player could look at a ten day chunk from last month. However, I'm not sure how hard/easy this would be to code, and would be a wish list item definitely.
A corp stats tab is a challenge for me personally. Because I feel these stats should be both public, and Private. Maybe take the current set of leader board stats, with a few additions, as a public facing tab, but then give the corp an expanded internal stat tab with all the data a player would have for themselves, but as a collection for the corp. As stated above these stats should only come from corp actions and operations, not from instant or public events, nor where mercs are working for other corps on an personal basis.
While graphing war points, isk gains, kills, deaths etc is not helpful graphing them against time played, matches played, or as a ratio against other stats would be. However as time goes on life time stats make current actions have less and less affect on the overall ratio or statistic and makes the average settle. This could be countered with limiting data sets looked at. You could have different data sets, life time, last year, last six months, last three months, last month, and last ten days. This would allow people to see how their actions are changing over time, without letting older data cloud the movement of the newer data. This should not be to hard to do if the data is time stamped.
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
608
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Posted - 2014.01.04 05:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
To further look into graphs themselves, and the data points used to build them, I can see a problem, and it is one I have run into personally with work on my site. The issue is the difference the number of data points. On the eve market all market data is boiled down to six points, the average paid, the high, the low, five day moving average, ten day moving average, and the total units sold. Unless time scales for Dust514 data go down as far as the day, taking an average of the data points for the day would be needed otherwise you might end up with 10, 15, or even more data points per day you are trying to work with, which would make the graphs very hard to read depending on the distribution of data and the day the player was having. While the data would then be a daily average and not the exact data, it would be a lot easier to graph, and have it understood in game. This of course would not preclude the ability of crest request for all data points and let the third party devs have all the data they want to do what they do.
Statistics
Main stats: Kills, Deaths, War points, Wins, Losses, Participation rate, Assists, Hacks, Counter Hacks, Hack Assists.
Other stats: Damage done, Damage received, Healing done, Healing received, Vehicles destroyed(can be broken down further), Team mates spawned, Team mates resupplied, longest kill distance.
The possible derived stats are numerous: Kill/Death ratio, Win/Loss ratio, Support Ratio, Support per Death, Support/Death Ratio, Kill Points, Kill Points per Death, Death Point Ratio, Death points, and Combo Ratio are all stats I currently track for mercenaries using only war points kills, deaths, and win loss ratio. More can be derived based on matches played, and the increased number of stats can give an increased view on the merc the stats are for, though information overload is a danger. Over the next few paragraphs I will try to explain some of the stats I have derived.
Kill Death Ratio and Win Loss Ratio are both well known stats, but still deserve some time.
KDR = Kills/Deaths: If deaths is zero KDR = Kills: If kills is zero KDR = .001 this is done so the math will continue to function. Win loss ratio is calculated in the same way.
Support ratio: As it currently stands for me is a comparison ratio of all war points not gained from kills to those that are. With the addition of kill assist numbers I am currently debating whether those numbers should switch sides in this equation, because they are technically kill points, but they are also points gained by supporting you team in helping to kill the enemy. Which makes it complicated. But let us assume they are kill points.
Support ratio = Support points/Kill points: Kill points = (Kills*50)+(Assists*25): Support points = Warpoints GÇô Kill points
Support Death ratio, Support per death: These two stats are basicly the same but shown in two forms, one as a ratio, the other in raw points. They compare the number of points earned in support, against the minimum points given away as deaths or just deaths themselves in the per death stat. I use this stat as the KDR equivalent for logi and support personnel who do not get a lot of kills. The reason for using both stat forms is to allow both a comparison to kdr, support death ratio, and a more granular look at points generated per death.
Support Death Ratio = Support points/(Deaths*50) and Support per death = Support points/Deaths
Kill points, death points: these are an extrapolation of the minimum war points gained or given away based on the kills and deaths, both of these are assumed to be a base of 50 points each. While these stats are not useable information on their own they allow the creation of more ratios, and adding context to other numbers.
Kill points per death: This stat is a war point companion to the kdr, they are the same information but in a different format. This mimics the support per death stat.
Death point ratio: is a ratio of the total number of war points earn as a comparison with the points given away as kills to the other team. This is stat I use as an efficiency stat. As anyone who is not generating more points than they give away are a detriment and may need more assistance from their team.
Death Point Ratio = Warpoints/Deathpoints
Combo Ratio: This stat is just what it sounds like. It is a combination of other ratios based on what I think may be the direction the devs want the game play to go at a high level. At this time I will hold the formulation back.
The next group of Stats are on a per match average and a calculated based on the kills deaths and warpoint averages per match though really, all of the above stats can be done on a per match basis using the average per match of each stat as a starting point and working thru the formulas from there.
Average Kills/Killpoints per match
Kills per match = kills / Matches played
Killpoints per match = Kills per match * 50
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
608
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 05:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Average Warpoints per match
Warpoints Per match = Lifetime Warpoints / Matches played
Average Support points per match
Support points per match = Warpoints per match GÇô Killpoints per match
Average deaths per match
Deaths Per match = Deaths / Matches played
Average KDR per match
KDR per match = Kills per match / Deaths per match
This should be roughly similar to overall kdr, but it would be interesting to see on a per match basis.
Average Kill death points per match
Kill Death Points = Killpoints per match / Deathpoints per match
Average Support death ratio per match
Support death ratio per match = Support points per match / Deathpoints per match
Road map
The first steps I would take are to rework the leader-boards. While the current system is good. The data is fragmented and most people consider the w/l and kdr leader-boards useless. As both of these are easy to skew and people will rank up then stop playing those mercs to stay at the top. While I know having to much data in one place will just look like a wall of text. All stats need to be listed in the same place. If a stat is going to be on a leader-board all leader-boards show show the same data. So once located all relevant data is there and you don't need to go looking on other boards to find the rest of the data for that character/corp.
At the same time I would introduce the after action reports as a out of match viewable option. I would say this needs to be the first thing done, but the leader-board changes should be simple and take very little if any UI reworking, and should mostly be data changes. Where as the after action reports will take much more UI work and time. But this is an important step as it will provide the basis for building the stats pages, provide the community with a way to track matches, and allow third party groups to much easier run tournaments, as they will be able to access the end of battle screen and thus the reports any time after the match and thus easier to pass along to others.
Once that was done I would introduce the dedicated stats page for the mercs. The Merc tab can be rolled out in stages with a slowly increasing amount of data and functionality. This would allow for people to get used to the idea, and not feel completely overwhelmed with changes. In addition a video tutorial would be very helpful, as once finished this would be a rather complex page, and any help given to the players would be a benefit, even for those who understand statistics.
In combination with the merc tab I would begin rolling out the corp tab. This one is slightly harder since the choice of public vs private data, and what should and should not be public. But I feel the need for the data to be available, in one form or another for the corps is an important feature. The ability to see how the corp is doing, solely in corp based activities, is a must. This is how the corps will fight with each other, and how they will try to interact with the eve community, similar to how eve corps and alliances use kill-boards, and the war tab in EVE.
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
866
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Posted - 2014.01.04 05:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think you missed the almighty ISK lost/destroyed ratio, as something we critically need available in a game of corporations and greed. Deaths don't matter. Dropsuits matter. A victory where you lose more money than your opponent is hardly a victory at all.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
611
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Posted - 2014.01.04 05:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
I agree that would be a great metric, and I have considered that but this is the document I email to CCP and had not though much about that at the time, I was a bit more focused on the merc himself and the battle and not on the entire war. I am trying to write a similar document of my feelings now, but it is going rather badly, as my ability to write my thoughts clearly right now is a bit not here.
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
|
Mahal Daj
Mahal Tactical Enterprises
39
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree, and would love to be able to crunch some of the massive data generated by this game.
Soraya, very well said. My KDR is a joke. I'd prefer to win. My deaths are often the cost of breaking the spear. We are immortal soldiers, our deaths are bragging rights, our kills are stories told, not the golden ratio.
Metrics reported at the end of the game would change the way the game is played. I'd like to be able to select between many options and have many or few at my discretion. Sometimes we immortal soldiers will fight beyond even the warcost, if our whim and wallet allow it.
Boost your squad's points by 40%, learn to use the Squad Wheel!
I provide training: 1M isk: 90 Minutes of Basic Command
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