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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
94
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Posted - 2013.12.31 02:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
i was playing with my best mate last ngith. we jumped into an ambush match. there was a missile gunnlogi roaming about.
so we both droped madrugars equipped with ion cannons onto the field to eliminate the threat. so we both find and engage the gunnlogi. drop his shields below half then guess what.
its a double shield hardner fit.
as soon as these came up his shields didnt budge even though he is under fire from 2 ion cannon's that are both damage modded. currently sheild hardners give 60% res. and with 2 of these you egt around 80-90% resistence ont eh shields for oh. say 20-40 secendos depending on the type.
so with these dual hardners up and on. the gunnlogi procced to bap both our madrugars with his xt msisile launcher 1 after the other.
now when you ahve just 1 tank under fire from 2 tanks fielding ion cannons. how in any way possible is it that these 2 powerful blaster cannons can not break the shields on a dual hardned gunnlogi. simpe the blaster can not put enough damage through the sheild thresshold.
a ion cannon deals 136.5 damage a shot. and when sheilds resist 80-90% of that it is worthless to shoot as not even a single point goes through, this is because the sheidls are regening more than what you can damage them. even with 2 ion cannons shooting the same tank they wont budge. and also the fact that the shield hardners last a ridiculos ammount of time and deaft the purpose of ''hit and run'' which was the general idea for caldai vehicles. they are now currently at ''stand and deliver'' which is what the gallente vehicles are supposed to do.
currently being able to fit 2 shield hardners is stupid. i have tried both blaster and railgun fits against my friends dual hardner gunni. and **** all damage goes through. missiles arent worth useing vs shields due to the 20 to 30% base resistence to explosives.
this wouldnt be much of a problem if sheild hradners gave 55 to 50% resistence. as fitting 2 of these would at least a blaster tank a chance of breaking the shields rather than haveing to attempt to survive untill the shield hardners drop after 20-30 seceonds.which in a tank fight is too long of a wait.
now i knwo shields have low hp ceilings and inr erturn have hgih ass resistence of 60% on thier hardners. but compared to the amrour harnders boost of 40% its to much of a gap in balanceing armour vs sheilds.
i wouldnt mind if either the sheild hardners lasted a shorter ammount of time. about 15-25 seceonds while retaining 60% resistence and colling down quicker.
or keeping current cycle/cooldown times in exchange for 55% to 50% resistemce boost.
but when you have 2 ion cannon fitted madruagrs with all complex modules (and a basic damage mod) that cant even kill a single gunnlgoi filedng an xt missile launcher and dual shield hardners and a complex sheild booster there is soemhting worng with the sheild hardners resistence boost, 2 ion cannons should have been more than enough to break the sheild threshsold to deal damage. but appaenrlty not since alot of gunnlogi fits use dual sheild hardners these days. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
982
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Posted - 2013.12.31 02:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
First I'd like to point out that blaster turrets are useful against infantry, not against vehicles.
Second, missiles are best against vehicles. Combined with a damage mod, only a hardened Sica/Gunnlogi can survive a full proto missile volley.
Third, because blasters are weak against vehicles, one hardener mitigates enough damage from blasters that they don't pass the damage threshold of shield recharge, allowing the shields to recharge even while under blaster fire.
Only thing I agree with is the use of multiple hardeners being "stupid."
But hey, you were probably facing an experienced pilot. I only use one shield hardener and I've been able to take out multiple tanks that tried to assault me at once. I just love going up against armor tanks because it satisfies me oh so much blowing them up with one missile volley.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
331
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Posted - 2013.12.31 02:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Of course hardeners are OP. But the problem here is tankers will just hear you saying "it should be easy to kill tanks".
Here's the difficulty scale of killing tanks as it is:
[EASY]----------------------------------------------------------------[BALANCED]------------------------------------------{NOW}------[IMPOSSIBLE]
But here's now tankers see it:
[EASY]-[NOW, "BALANCED']
See, to them, there is no gray area between how nearly impossible it is to take out tanks now, and it being "easy". |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
450
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Posted - 2013.12.31 03:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Of course hardeners are OP. But the problem here is tankers will just hear you saying "it should be easy to kill tanks".
Here's the difficulty scale of killing tanks as it is:
[EASY]----------------------------------------------------------------[BALANCED]------------------------------------------{NOW}------[IMPOSSIBLE]
But here's now tankers see it:
[EASY]-[NOW, "BALANCED']
See, to them, there is no gray area between how nearly impossible it is to take out tanks now, and it being "easy". I agree, tanks got a lot of direct and indirect buffs. The costs went down to a point where its just flat out silly. AV was nerfed both swarms and forge guns. Then of course there is the speed tanks are still too fast. All these things combine make tanks highly maneuverable and difficult to bust. Mostly with the speed they are dammed close to impossible to pop. I can only bust them these days when i am running my proto breach with 2 complex damage mods and another tank to corner and or distract the tank. Normally if i hit a tank with 1 round now they turn tail and run and are so fast that with my nerfed range they are out of range before i can charge up again. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2013.12.31 04:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
If that pilot was that good then they might have a lot of points invested as well . You know the tree give multiple 5%'s in recharge time and actual activation time , along with the armor repair rate and shield recharge rate so you might have been faced with that multiple in the equation as well .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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ladwar
Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising
1944
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Posted - 2013.12.31 05:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistant m wrote: we jumped into an ambush match. there was a missile gunnlogi roaming about.
so we both droped madrugars equipped with ion cannons onto the field to eliminate the threat. so we both find and engage the gunnlogi. right there is your fatal error
so we used what is weak to in order to beat something and then cried. HTFU and use rail and shield would be better since it was a missile. case closed.
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth
not looking for a corp, don't ask.
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Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
335
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Posted - 2014.01.05 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
I hope you didn't just roll up and open fire. Missile turrets only have 12 shots per clip, and so they need to make their shots count. Need to stay on the move and make them miss, then run off momentarily while it reloads. Shield hardeners have the highest resists, but also the shortest duration.
Also, yes, using armor tanks to fight a missile tank was just shooting yourself in the foot from the get go.
Amarr HAV Speculation
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Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
173
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Posted - 2014.01.05 16:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Everyone's pointing out the weakness of armor to missiles, but seem to ignore blasters bonus to shields.
Babies are delicious... especially with a harty helping of wtf u talking about- Muscles Magillicutti
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
183
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Posted - 2014.01.05 17:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:i was playing with my best mate last ngith. we jumped into an ambush match. there was a missile gunnlogi roaming about.
so we both droped madrugars equipped with ion cannons onto the field to eliminate the threat. so we both find and engage the gunnlogi. drop his shields below half then guess what.
its a double shield hardner fit.
as soon as these came up his shields didnt budge even though he is under fire from 2 ion cannon's that are both damage modded. currently sheild hardners give 60% res. and with 2 of these you egt around 80-90% resistence ont eh shields for oh. say 20-40 secendos depending on the type.
so with these dual hardners up and on. the gunnlogi procced to bap both our madrugars with his xt msisile launcher 1 after the other.
now when you ahve just 1 tank under fire from 2 tanks fielding ion cannons. how in any way possible is it that these 2 powerful blaster cannons can not break the shields on a dual hardned gunnlogi. simpe the blaster can not put enough damage through the sheild thresshold.
a ion cannon deals 136.5 damage a shot. and when sheilds resist 80-90% of that it is worthless to shoot as not even a single point goes through, this is because the sheidls are regening more than what you can damage them. even with 2 ion cannons shooting the same tank they wont budge. and also the fact that the shield hardners last a ridiculos ammount of time and deaft the purpose of ''hit and run'' which was the general idea for caldai vehicles. they are now currently at ''stand and deliver'' which is what the gallente vehicles are supposed to do.
currently being able to fit 2 shield hardners is stupid. i have tried both blaster and railgun fits against my friends dual hardner gunni. and **** all damage goes through. missiles arent worth useing vs shields due to the 20 to 30% base resistence to explosives.
this wouldnt be much of a problem if sheild hradners gave 55 to 50% resistence. as fitting 2 of these would at least a blaster tank a chance of breaking the shields rather than haveing to attempt to survive untill the shield hardners drop after 20-30 seceonds.which in a tank fight is too long of a wait.
now i knwo shields have low hp ceilings and inr erturn have hgih ass resistence of 60% on thier hardners. but compared to the amrour harnders boost of 40% its to much of a gap in balanceing armour vs sheilds.
i wouldnt mind if either the sheild hardners lasted a shorter ammount of time. about 15-25 seceonds while retaining 60% resistence and colling down quicker.
or keeping current cycle/cooldown times in exchange for 55% to 50% resistemce boost.
but when you have 2 ion cannon fitted madruagrs with all complex modules (and a basic damage mod) that cant even kill a single gunnlgoi filedng an xt missile launcher and dual shield hardners and a complex sheild booster there is soemhting worng with the sheild hardners resistence boost, 2 ion cannons should have been more than enough to break the sheild threshsold to deal damage. but appaenrlty not since alot of gunnlogi fits use dual sheild hardners these days.
wrong gun for the job. and you were too close to him. and you didnt feint at the start of the attack.
you want to trick him into using the hardeners early, then back off for a few seconds before committing to the attack. his hardeners will run out before he can kill you and he'll be forced to run, then you finish him off.
and damage mods are useless. fit boosters instead |
Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
2074
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Posted - 2014.01.05 21:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
In my experience, 2 Shield Hardeners is not enough to stop 2 Ion Cannons. 2 amped Ions firing on a half health, double hardened, no regen (earlier DPS cuts the regen) Gunnlogi would pop it in seconds. 2 to 4 seconds depending on whether or not the 3rd slot was an extender. Not sure what's happening here, but I would've definitely needed 3. Then, without an extender, it would take 5 seconds of direct fire to break shields after the halfway point. Only way I see this happening is if he had 1-2 on already, then activated a 3rd when you reached halfway, firing at you the whole time, hopefully lasting long enough to beat the regen delay. Only way 2 would work is if he popped one of you as they went up to cut the DPS, or he used extender + 2 hardeners against 2 unamped Ions.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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