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Pickle Sniffer
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2013.12.26 11:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that tanks are apparently impossible for passive scans to recognize? It seems absurd that my adv scout suit with adv scanners can pick up almost all other players and equipment, but somehow not a giant rumbling death machine... |
Lorhak Gannarsein
893
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Posted - 2013.12.26 11:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pickle Sniffer wrote:Is anyone else bothered by the fact that tanks are apparently impossible for passive scans to recognize? It seems absurd that my adv scout suit with adv scanners can pick up almost all other players and equipment, but somehow not a giant rumbling death machine...
We see this post all the time.
Your scanners will pick it up as soon as it's in your scan radius.
They apparently have a profile of like 150db.
No, they're not invisible. Yes, they live by the same rules as you.
PRO tanker and proud.
Lentarr Legionary.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
203
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Posted - 2013.12.26 12:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Passive Scanning, unless you specifically build it up, is only 10m for most frames and still only 16m for lights.
Active Scanning should pick it up, but sometimes it can be temperamental as occasionally you can scan over something, see it appear while running the scan but then the thing doesn't stay lit. Probably not working as intended... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1428
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Posted - 2013.12.26 12:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pickle Sniffer wrote:Is anyone else bothered by the fact that tanks are apparently impossible for passive scans to recognize? It seems absurd that my adv scout suit with adv scanners can pick up almost all other players and equipment, but somehow not a giant rumbling death machine...
And a tank with a militia active scanner can pick up my complex dampened suit. |
Wallaby1
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
59
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Posted - 2013.12.26 12:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
a smart tanker will always keep on the move thus preventing his location from being scanned . |
PEW JACKSON
s i n g u l a r i t y
135
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Posted - 2013.12.26 12:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pro tip: friendly tanks will be seen on your map. If you hear a tank, but don't see it, then it's most likely enemy. Same with lolLAVs
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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Akdhar Saif
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2013.12.26 12:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hit 'Start' and hold R2 to zoom in. Tank's are visible on the map.  |
PEW JACKSON
s i n g u l a r i t y
135
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Posted - 2013.12.26 13:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Akdhar Saif wrote:Hit 'Start' and hold R2 to zoom in. Tank's are visible on the map.
Or down on the D-pad.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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Protocake JR
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
1200
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Posted - 2013.12.26 14:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Everytime someone posts something like this, an army of people post work-arounds for this broken mechanic without discussing solutions, as if it's working as intended.
Plain and simple: Vehicles should show up on your radar (not just passive scanning range) if they are in range. I don't care how it's done, explained or whatever. Vehicles (not just tanks) are powerful and fast enough to warrant this. Also add to the fact that the majority of infantry will not have proper vehicle deterrent, justifies this even further. Long ago, CCP had "Blackops" tanks. They were supposed to be "stealth" tanks. However, they were ahead of their time, because back then, we didn't have active scanners. Also, most regular tanks engaged infantry well away from their measly passive scanning range, so in a way, they were just as "stealthy" as the Black Ops tanks. Thus, Black Ops tanks were absolutely useless due to the nonexistant role and sacrifices it had to make in order to "achieve" that role. They were removed.
I think it would be a good to introduce stealth modules for vehicles, or stealth variants, after they make vehicles show up on infantry radars full range.
NOTE: If this were to go through, light/medium/heavy radar range should be nerfed a bit like 60/30/15 meters.
**********
Passive scanning is pretty broken right now. The ranges, and the difference in range between frame sizes makes passive scanning kind of pointless. The short cutoff is jarring considering the fact that your radar extends much, much farther out than your passive scanning range.
It's easy to be mislead into thinking that passive scanning is buggy and just not working at all, when actually the mechanic itself does not fit in with the rest of the game.
The PC and SL should fit into the Sidearm slot so it's accessible and practical to carry one.
AV spam vs V spam
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Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
402
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Posted - 2013.12.26 14:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Pickle Sniffer wrote:Is anyone else bothered by the fact that tanks are apparently impossible for passive scans to recognize? It seems absurd that my adv scout suit with adv scanners can pick up almost all other players and equipment, but somehow not a giant rumbling death machine... And a tank with a militia active scanner can pick up my complex dampened suit.
Really, i use a basic dampner on my AV scout and tanks cant pick me up.
"We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
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Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
553
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Posted - 2013.12.26 14:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Pickle Sniffer wrote:Is anyone else bothered by the fact that tanks are apparently impossible for passive scans to recognize? It seems absurd that my adv scout suit with adv scanners can pick up almost all other players and equipment, but somehow not a giant rumbling death machine... We see this post all the time. Your scanners will pick it up as soon as it's in your scan radius. They apparently have a profile of like 150db. No, they're not invisible. Yes, they live by the same rules as you.
That is stupid though
You should see them from far out like installations.
What is worse, they can be right around a corner and if the sound glitches out you would think a scout jumped you  |
Protocake JR
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
1201
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Posted - 2013.12.27 00:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ba-Bump tss.
The PC and SL should fit into the Sidearm slot so it's accessible and practical to carry one.
AV spam vs V spam
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
378
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Posted - 2013.12.27 00:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
I thought you actually meant INVISIBLE tanks, lek the ones I've seen... Or haven't seen, actually. I only see the shooting effect from rails sometimes.
Cloaking has been released for tanks lol and LAV drivers, passengers, and gunners. |
DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
70
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Posted - 2013.12.27 00:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
this needs to be fixed
as a fully invested scout I can tell you that tanks within scan radius do NOT pop up on tac-net
using my passive skills I can pick up an enemy standing near a tank but not the tank itself
the only way to pick up a tank is by LOS or active scanners
imagine the s#!t you can kill from a throne.... fu@#!n Rome.
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Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
293
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Posted - 2013.12.27 00:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Long ago, CCP had "Blackops" tanks. They were supposed to be "stealth" tanks. However, they were ahead of their time, because back then, we didn't have active scanners. Also, most regular tanks engaged infantry well away from their measly passive scanning range, so in a way, regular tanks were just as "stealthy" as the Black Ops tanks. Thus, Black Ops tanks were absolutely useless due to the nonexistant role and sacrifices it had to make in order to "achieve" that role. They were removed.
How exactly did they function? I got a code for the closed Beta but I didn't have the internet connection to support it at the time. :'( I sadly missed out on everything pre-Chrome. Was always curious about these mysterious Black Ops HAVS, though. Did they just have a lower scan signature or something? A bonus to damps? |
Dimmu Borgir II
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
216
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Posted - 2013.12.27 00:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well this also happens with an advanced active scanner, I could have a tank about 10 metres in front of me but behind a hill and my scanner won't even pick it up even though I know it's there!
Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
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Pickle Sniffer
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.12.27 11:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by this - I'm fully invested in scan radius, precision, and scout drop suits, but I still wind up creeping or hiding on buildings anytime I hear a tank, because unless I pause the game or it rolls by me, I have no idea where it is! I don't show up on their passive scans, and usually not on vehicle active scans, so in that respect the profiles and precision of scanners and scannees seems to work as advertised , but as to the profiles of HAVs, they just don't show up? I was hoping this would be fixed with the last update - a little love, CCP? |
Fremder V1
Armed And Aimless
6
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Posted - 2013.12.27 11:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
It sorta worked back in the day, until the activ scanner were implemented. Scanning didn't gave WP yet and the efficiency of passiv scanning made them kinda redundant, so no one used them.
Someone apparently thought serverly reducing the passiv scan range would increase their use... Which was the case. Sadly the bigger picture was missed, and suddenly all vehicles and installations switched to ninja mode.
Me thinks a long passiv scan range, combined with a gradual decrease in efficiency would have been the better choice. Probably more work, though. |
Valmorgan Aubaris
Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services
71
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Posted - 2013.12.27 11:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Everytime someone posts something like this, an army of people post work-arounds for this broken mechanic without discussing solutions, as if it's working as intended.
If you know it's been posted before many times, why did you post about it again?
EVE alliance seeks mercs, join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today!
Let's gank Scotty.
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
292
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Posted - 2013.12.27 13:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
i hear tanks well before they get in range of my suits scan and i nevr have a problme dodgeing them uness there are just too many or im in a crap position so i have no idea what ur taling about, tanks are loud open ur ears |
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Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
554
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Posted - 2013.12.27 14:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:i hear tanks well before they get in range of my suits scan and i never have a problme dodgeing them uness there are just too many or im in a crap position so i have no idea what ur talking about, tanks are loud open ur ears
You do know the sound glitches in this game often-times.
Also if a friendly tank (or multiple enemy) is in the area, it isnt easy to differentiate the sound to locate them. Even sometimes when there is only one, the sound seems to be coming from more than one direction.
And the final point - how can I pick up quick blips of infantry (further out than inner circle) from my passive scan but not tanks????
ALL VEHICLES should stand out and be picked up easily on passive scans unless they are given stealth modules. Obviously LAV < DS < HAV
- I should never stumble upon a tank or a dropship shouldnt suddenly just appear overhead. |
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2013.12.27 14:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Everytime someone posts something like this, an army of people post work-arounds for this broken mechanic without discussing solutions, as if it's working as intended.
Plain and simple: Vehicles should show up on your radar (not just passive scanning range) if they are in range. .
I think it would be good to introduce stealth modules for vehicles, or stealth variants, after they make vehicles show up on infantry radars full range.
*********
Passive scanning is pretty broken right now. The ranges, and the difference in range between frame sizes makes passive scanning kind of pointless. The short cutoff is jarring considering the fact that your radar extends much, much farther out than your passive scanning range.
It's easy to be mislead into thinking that passive scanning is buggy and just not working at all, when actually the mechanic itself does not fit in with the rest of the game.
Pickle Sniffer and Protocake.... (...pickle sniffer, ...and "cake"?... .uugh, ...oh well,...) I WANT to think that the two sides of view you presented are hinting at what may become a controversial issue. It's already been an issue in MY mind, and it's called the "Waves of Opportunity" concept for balancing the battlefield.
[Left Hand]: Your hand scanner in Patch 1.7 now has a limited effectiveness...(scan precision and range are relatively small)
[Right Hand]: The red HAV you're probing around for has been given increased speed, allowing the opportunity to "wave in" quickly between your tiny scans, and do it's fatal damage.
[Left Hand]: A dropship (or LAV) has been given the more effective scanner (far more useful range and db precision), making an early "scan" of the dropzone as you deploy from the vehicle potentially desirable pre-warning against incoming HAVs. If the DS's defenses were still as potent as before 1.7, she could stay with you for 90 seconds and give you eyes on any danger nearby.
[Right Hand]: The defensive modules on a DS have now been 'time-limited' in Patch 1.7, forcing the dropship to have to "wave out" of the area quickly or face destruction.
[Left Hand]: The brief scan by the dropship at least caught the approach of the red HAV, and you now have some seconds to deploy some AV gear and try to destroy the incoming HAV.
[Right Hand]: Patch 1.7's reduction of your portable AV's destructiveness (it can still kill him, but now requires more time to kill him), allows the HAV driver the option of using his new speed to quickly "wave out" of the area instead of losing his vehicle in (what I call) an honest-gutsy-town-gunfight.
This LEFT hand, then RIGHT hand, then left, then right routine is the "Waves of Opportunity" concept starting into practice. Weaken your device just enough that the opposition can rush in--but weaken his device just enough that you (can't KILL him, but) force him to choose to rush out... It's not that our devices are broken, it's the beginning stage of what the devs INTENTIONALLY want. They may see the current situation as 'needing to be tweaked to perfection', but I'm afraid they won't see it as your "broken" thing.
I'm at a crossroads with the "Waves of Opportunity" idea in combat. I am against it, but I normally want to suck it up and find my own solution to anything CCP creates that I might be unhappy with---I don't prefer petitions and complaining.
But.... this new "Waves" idea for creating a (too forced and artificial?) balance in the matches, may become the most controversial new innovation Dust has come up with.
I hope it DOES become more controversial, because I'd really like more players to dissect this "Waves" scheme and sound off your opinions. |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1679
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Posted - 2014.02.14 00:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:Protocake JR wrote:Long ago, CCP had "Blackops" tanks. They were supposed to be "stealth" tanks. However, they were ahead of their time, because back then, we didn't have active scanners. Also, most regular tanks engaged infantry well away from their measly passive scanning range, so in a way, regular tanks were just as "stealthy" as the Black Ops tanks. Thus, Black Ops tanks were absolutely useless due to the nonexistant role and sacrifices it had to make in order to "achieve" that role. They were removed. How exactly did they function? I got a code for the closed Beta but I didn't have the internet connection to support it at the time. :'( I sadly missed out on everything pre-Chrome. Was always curious about these mysterious Black Ops HAVS, though. Did they just have a lower scan signature or something? A bonus to damps?
1: vehicles don't, and never had damps
2: His description of BO HAV's and the issues it had are completely wrong. It was supposed to have a built in vehicle cloak and a reverse CRU, which apparently allowed for despawning. Well, the CRU didn't even work like that (it was just a regular one), and the vehicle cloak didn't exist. Therefore, it was removed for fixing. It was however, a very good vehicle. Far better than the Suyra or Madrugar, as it had way better fitting abilities, a 4.4 layout, and better maneuverability (picture today's Maddy speed with today's Gunnlogi handling).
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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