I don't want to see scanners nerfed. IMO everyone complaining (except heavies and min assaults) about getting scanned have only themselves to blame. To this day I have still not been scanned in any of my Ghost med frame suits that equip double complex dampeners.

However, as a balancing trade I would propose this, if the tie went to the suite, medium frames with full skills and 1x enhanced dampener, and med frames with 1 complex and 1 enhanced to beat the advanced and proto scanners respectively. This would still cause mercs to have to make a sacrifice in their builds to evade scanning, but give us a little back.

[...]

For heavies I have a different idea, why not make their precision level WAY lower. They have the beefy suits and such a high profile that it is worthless for them to try to evade radar, as it should be. However, given that they are at that disadvantage, why not give them a natural precision of 40 dB so that they see all but those that skill and equip to counter if they put skill into precision enhancement (not gonna say heavies should get it for free)? The vehicle scanners are set at 36dB, why not give the walking vehicles the same advantage?

@op,

I believe your maths are off.

50db x .10(for skill) =45

45 x .25= 11.25 = 33.75

33.75 x .20 = 6.75= 27


If you are getting scanned then someone is running the focused.

My math shows different numbers

complex damp plus enhance damp plus level five dampening
25+20+10=55%

scan profile minus dampening percentage
50-55%(that's 27.5)=22.5Db

22 or 23 rounded up is below all proto scanners but one which I think is down at 16 Db

@OP

You actually aren't evading the proto. Unfortunately, the stacking penalty is applied to the highest tiered mod.

50 * 0.9 * .8 * (1 - 0.25 * 0.86) = 28.26

Not sure how rounding is handled though.

Could you explain this formula?

Base * Skill reduction * ( 1 - Adv Damp * stacking penalty A) * ( 1 - proto damp * stacking penalty B)

where stacking penalty A is 1 (so no penalty)

Edit: oh by highest tier mod you mean that it would go 100% of the .2 and 86.9% of the .25? That sucks, so that is the same for stacking DMG mods? Meaning if you combine a complex and basic you are actually getting 100% of .03 and 86.9% of .1?

No. Stacking penalties are applied to the lowest tiered mod on Damage mods.

It seems that when applying stack penalties, CCP orders them from greatest to least and then applies them to the smaller mods. This means mods that give increases have stacking penalties applied to the lowest tier while mods that give reductions have penalties applied to the highest tier

For example,
if you have 2 cmp Damage mods and an enhanced, they would be ordered:
0.12, 0.12, 0.05 (or whatever the actual values are)
Then the penalties are applied from left to right so the first cmp doesn't get a penalty

However, if you are using 2 cmp damps and 1 enhanced damp, they are also ordered from greatest to least:
-0.2, -0.25, -0.25
which means the enhanced doesn't get a penalty

To clear up a few things.

1. if they are using the same fitting code as EVE, which it stands to reason that they are considering many similarities, Stacking penalties are litterally applied in order, mod in slot 1, mod in slot 2, mod in slot 3 ect, which slot is slot 1 is still debated, even in EVE.

2. it's Skill bonus, then Suit bonus, then Mod bonus for how bonuses are applied.

sadly at the moment I am not in a condition to evaluate the maths that have been presented in the thread, pain makes it a bit hard to think properly. I will come back this evening and post the proper maths.

To clear up a few things.

1. if they are using the same fitting code as EVE, which it stands to reason that they are considering many similarities, Stacking penalties are litterally applied in order, mod in slot 1, mod in slot 2, mod in slot 3 ect, which slot is slot 1 is still debated, even in EVE.

G_Torq - ratamaq, just reading IRC log ... yeah, according to old discussions (1 year old) slot doesn't matter for modifiers, only value
G_Torq - dampeners have values under 1, eg. 0.90, 0.85 etc ... and since CCP sort modifiers from large to small before applying them, the smallest dampener would be applied first
G_Torq - "This is known" :)

Ratamaq, also left you this on IRC:



Note: This is skipped on my fitting tool, for now.

meaning the .75 first or the .90 first.

In other words, does the basic go first then complex, or the other way around? Would you think this would be intended to put the penalty on the 'more effective' module if it is this way?

For the love of God!

Just use the calculator
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties

From the site.

"Individual bonuses: -20.00%, -21.73%, Total bonus: -37.38%
Calculate Bonus
[edit]Formula
Preliminary tests indicated that Dust 514 also uses the same formula as EVE, shown below:
S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2]
n = the nth module added S = stacking effect for this particular module addition
Module bonuses are ordered from highest to lowest, thus giving you the maximum bonus."

except that in the case of profile dampeners, they don't.

You may not realize it, but CCP doesn't just throw out a random number when balancing profiles.
I have a feeling there is a reason for it being just at the cusp of detection.

It should require two complex damps on a medium frame to evade a prototype scanner. You have to sacrifice to remain hidden.

All suits have to fit a dampener to evade a prototype scanner, even scouts.