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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1487
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
There has been allot of crying and complaining regarding unkillable tanks, this I believe is mostly down to the use of active hardeners. It is not the hardeners themselves i think is the problem as I believe them to be working as intended, the problem I think stems from the use of 2 or 3 active hardeners not any 1 hardener its self.
Now let me explain if i say fit 1 complex shield hardener I get 60% resistance for 30 seconds , then once those 30 seconds are up my hav is extremely vulnerable for 42 seconds this would fall in line with CCP's waves of opportunity that they are trying to create, giving me 30 seconds to turn up dish out some hurt and then either retreat to safety or move on to the next target but once that hardener has ran its 30 second cycle the av on field has 42 seconds to kill me 12 seconds longer than i have to kill them not only that but if i use 1 hardener and don't factor my escape into those 30 seconds then im cut short of safety and leave myself very open to attack. This as mentioned above gives the av more time to kill me than I have to kill them ... This system give a rough combat time of 5mis out of 12 with the shield hardeners up and 7 out of 12 with the hardeners down playing to the waves of opportunity.
Now the problem duel hardeners so you know the timers on hardeners work and how much time in and out of battle you get with 1 hardener but if you run 2 shield hardeners at complex level you end out with 60% resists for 60 seconds and a cooldown between cycles of 12 seconds... this is the major problem a shield tank is really hard to kill while its hardeners are active and the 12 second window is not really a fair amount of time for av to get into place to kill me , this falls against the waves of opportunity that ccp tried to create, as this way you get 10mins out of 12 with your hardners up and 2 mins out of 12 with no resistance.
This is the biggest problem regarding HAV's at the moment as running duel hardners negates the wave like gamplay and negates the AV's wave of opportunity to counter attack......The only way i can see to fix this problem is to either buff AV back to ridiculous levels or put fitting restrictions on active hardners i.e. only one of each kind can be fitted at a time.
thoughts ?
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Thurak1
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
445
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Its not just the hardeners that make tanks so bloody hard to kill there has also been a pretty big nerf to AV. So between stacked hardeners and nerf weapons to kill tanks its a great 1 2 punch to infantry. |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1489
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Its not just the hardeners that make tanks so bloody hard to kill there has also been a pretty big nerf to AV. So between stacked hardeners and nerf weapons to kill tanks its a great 1 2 punch to infantry.
if tanks didn't stack hardeners you'd see a very different battlefield with tanks chasing av across the field and then av chaseing them back when on cooldown instead of the permahardend never retreat tanks you are facing right now.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
274
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Thurak1 wrote:Its not just the hardeners that make tanks so bloody hard to kill there has also been a pretty big nerf to AV. So between stacked hardeners and nerf weapons to kill tanks its a great 1 2 punch to infantry. if tanks didn't stack hardeners you'd see a very different battlefield with tanks chasing av across the field and then av chaseing them back when on cooldown instead of the permahardend never retreat tanks you are facing right now.
Even if there were limits to hardeners, there'd be no back-and-forth chase. Tanks would activate hardeners and chase the infantry, hardeners would go into cooldown, tanks would bolt back behind the redline before the second wave of swarms/AV nades/fFG blast.
Hardeners need to be limited, AV needs to be buffed, and tanks need to be slowed down a LOT. |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1490
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Thurak1 wrote:Its not just the hardeners that make tanks so bloody hard to kill there has also been a pretty big nerf to AV. So between stacked hardeners and nerf weapons to kill tanks its a great 1 2 punch to infantry. if tanks didn't stack hardeners you'd see a very different battlefield with tanks chasing av across the field and then av chaseing them back when on cooldown instead of the permahardend never retreat tanks you are facing right now. Even if there were limits to hardeners, there'd be no back-and-forth chase. Tanks would activate hardeners and chase the infantry, hardeners would go into cooldown, tanks would bolt back behind the redline before the second wave of swarms/AV nades/fFG blast. Hardeners need to be limited, AV needs to be buffed, and tanks need to be slowed down a LOT.
you cant double nerf one thing and buff the other you have to adjust a bit at a time other wise ..well you've seen the mess it can make.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
274
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:TheEnd762 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Thurak1 wrote:Its not just the hardeners that make tanks so bloody hard to kill there has also been a pretty big nerf to AV. So between stacked hardeners and nerf weapons to kill tanks its a great 1 2 punch to infantry. if tanks didn't stack hardeners you'd see a very different battlefield with tanks chasing av across the field and then av chaseing them back when on cooldown instead of the permahardend never retreat tanks you are facing right now. Even if there were limits to hardeners, there'd be no back-and-forth chase. Tanks would activate hardeners and chase the infantry, hardeners would go into cooldown, tanks would bolt back behind the redline before the second wave of swarms/AV nades/fFG blast. Hardeners need to be limited, AV needs to be buffed, and tanks need to be slowed down a LOT. you cant double nerf one thing and buff the other you have to adjust a bit at a time other wise ..well you've seen the mess it can make.
You mean like how they triple buffed tanks and triple nerfed AV? I'm not saying make vehicles as weak as they used to be, or make AV as strong as it used to be, but only slightly tweaking one isn't enough at this point. |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1490
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
the triple nerf to av came after several av buffs and severall tank nerfs so if we keep doing it your way well end up running in circles again.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
213
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
shhhh this is the only way us derpships survive D:
Best game with a Python:
33kills 1 death (1.6)
24kills 1 death (1.7)
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Thurak1
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
446
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Posted - 2013.12.23 04:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
I almost forgot about the insane speed tanks have now. That needs to be addressed. Also tanks are CHEAP now. Very cheap which is ridiculous with how easily they now dominate the BF.
There are many things with tanks and AV now that really should be addressed. The idea of having waves of opportunity is just flat out funny to me. There is no way such a concept wil end up being balanced in this game at least not with how cheap tanks are right now.
make a tank with 2 armor hardners then grab 3 other people that have the same set up and whala you have a set up where there are no "waves of oppertunity" you have one continuous rolling offensive of vehicles that easily outrun any AV and the AV on the field can't do enough damage to mean anything. |
Dunce Masterson
Savage Bullet
8
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Posted - 2013.12.23 05:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:I almost forgot about the insane speed tanks have now. That needs to be addressed. Also tanks are CHEAP now. Very cheap which is ridiculous with how easily they now dominate the BF.
There are many things with tanks and AV now that really should be addressed. The idea of having waves of opportunity is just flat out funny to me. There is no way such a concept wil end up being balanced in this game at least not with how cheap tanks are right now.
make a tank with 2 armor hardners then grab 3 other people that have the same set up and whala you have a set up where there are no "waves of oppertunity" you have one continuous rolling offensive of vehicles that easily outrun any AV and the AV on the field can't do enough damage to mean anything.
if you cant beat em join them have your squad call in sica tanks and team up on them their is strength in numbers and the tanks are cheep now remember
they are not insane speed demons any more their speed is fine now |
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
625
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Posted - 2013.12.23 05:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is a fantastic argument for damage type specific armor hardeners. Check this out.
LogiGod earns his pips
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