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How to counter Nyan SANs research faciliy strat

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Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 533	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:10:00 - [1] - Quote as we all know NYAN SAN has started doing a rather..... exploitive stratagy in certain maps to win without having to rely on skill. mostly the new research facility but they can use it on most maps since they know how it works. good news folks, as long as you know where they are trying to set up their great and powerful LAG bomb you can put an end to them rather easily! in the research facility they ALWAYS head to the pwoer core obejctive (the one with the supply depot underground) they will use any trick they can to get there and set up the lag bomb, so make sure you get there first to kill their scout. if you stop them from taking the city off the bat their stage 2 is a dropship with an uplink loaded squad will head to above the Beta bridge, once their they will imediatly try to retake that damn supply depot, if you have an RE user in your squad make sure they pre mine that damn room so that if they get a foothold their a flick of the detonator and a few quick fluxes returns them back to the roof. once that doesnt work they will resort to mini lag bombs, and while not as effective as the big boy you WILL feel it. pack LOTS of fluxes, half their squad will be logis with 3-4 sets of rep hive equipments and they will dance on that thing all day long, but are VERY afraid of moving out of it, use that to your advantage. they will find a small room somewhere on the outside edge of the city near that damn supply depot to start the lag cycle. another thing to note is that their early game is dominated and consumed with getting that lag bomb in place, so the home objective is EASILY held by a single member of your team. giving you a decent lead that you can rely on if they gain a bigger foothold in the city. if they get that lag bomb off its pretty much game, and you will have to rely on that early lead to carry you through the last half of the game, after their lag bomb is set they only leave about 3 in the city, and they set out to hold an outside objective with 2-3 of their squad. its pretty sad when a corp has to resort to this kind of extreme exploit. and i know that there are alot of corps out there that have outright refused to even fight against it. but its HILARIOUS when you can stop the lag bomb, undernieth the exploits they arnt all that great. if any of them are reading this, i ask you.... if this is what you have to do to win, whats the point?
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1479	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:19:00 - [2] - Quote I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 533	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:21:00 - [3] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 832	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:30:00 - [4] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb Yeah, I've been seeing milkman's squad doing it in FW. I've started fluxing their equipment - they may be on my team, but I still like moving. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1298	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:36:00 - [5] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb How are you aware of this? Is a fix due anytime soon? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1480	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:39:00 - [6] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb good god read between the lines and see the point I was making.....most of these folks do this and pretend to be logiing the team by dropping their nanohives etc to resupply their team in the room with a supply depo Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 749	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:44:00 - [7] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb Now what I can't wait for is a set radius around things such as uplinks and nanohives within which you are unable to place anything else ('cept maybe REs) - that and a proper limit on how much equipment a single suit can deploy (ie. not being able to circumvent the nanohive cap by carrying different types or swapping suits)
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 533	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:46:00 - [8] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb How are you aware of this? Is a fix due anytime soon? im aware of this becuase im very observant :P if it works in one location but not in another i ask myself WHY :P why is its greatest effect in small rooms? why doesnt it work with hundreds of proxes and remotes from a squad of 6 but works with nanohives? the key to the bug is the ECHO effect, you need to create that giant feedback echo loop in a small space :P 40 hives in a spot is loud and buggy. those same 40 hives in a small room with echo effects crashes the damn map. i figured it out by watching the enemy team trying to set it up, where it was always set up. then testing to see if it was only nanohives or any equipment. and its nanos in particular that make things bad. you cant set up the same lag loop with uplinks or anything else, just nanos. it took CCP 7 months to fix rendering.... do YOU think theres a fix coming soon? they should jsut remove the damn echo effect till they can figure out why its crashing maps.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 1337	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:48:00 - [9] - Quote Bringing this and this to your attention. Don't want to think it's intentional, but still many corps do it. Tank 514.
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1586	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:48:00 - [10] - Quote Honestly, I doubt that Nyan SAN is doing this intentionally. Equipment Spam lag IMO works both ways. Anyways, I hopefull Fox and Null understand that equipment spam must be fixed. Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I learned how to make Jewelry out of Matari Flesh

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 801	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:50:00 - [11] - Quote Let's be honest, Nyain San, while deservedly famous for sh!t tactics and all around douchebaggery, are not the only people who do this. I built a suicide RE/flux Combo BPO fit specifically to combat it the other night. I think it's intentional, there is no other reason for 10+ pieces of equipment to be in there. Two fluxes got me 75 WP for equipment destruction the other night. Equipment caps are an iffy thing, but the best fix, aside from addressing the lag problem in general, is to put a radius around installations where equipment doesn't work. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 132	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:55:00 - [12] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb good god read between the lines and see the point I was making.....most of these folks do this and pretend to be logiing the team by dropping their nanohives etc to resupply their team in the room with a supply depo And the news is this is?
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 1337	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:57:00 - [13] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Let's be honest, Nyain San, while deservedly famous for sh!t tactics and all around douchebaggery, are not the only people who do this. I built a suicide RE/flux Combo BPO fit specifically to combat it the other night. Equipment caps are an iffy thing, but the best fix, aside from addressing the lag problem in general, is to put a radius around installations where equipment doesn't work. This exploit would work if you do the same thing on other certain spots, not necessarily near a deposit. Tank 514.
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 562	Posted - 2013.12.22 14:02:00 - [14] - Quote or CCP could finally fix the game.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 132	Posted - 2013.12.22 14:19:00 - [15] - Quote In this map that suply depo is kind of key to win ( or at least a inportant strategic spot ) It's not strange that ppl putt down stuff to help defending it. Take it in domination mode one team holds the point one team gold the suply. DOWN With rep Hives and links and the nade SPAM begins. Then BOMM orbital on A and the guys at the supply takes over sence u can't orbital the supply. I am also al for a cap on dropping sh-ít arownd supply depot... However should we bann rephives close to it also and don't let the team holding a supply use em but ppl that are attacking can use em? In FW this is a non issue sence pints don't get orbitals any way. So if you box en in that supply let stay there and hold the point. So what am I saying? Idk maybee fix so the game don't LAG insted of crying for a nerf al the time.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 534	Posted - 2013.12.22 14:28:00 - [16] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Honestly, I doubt that Nyan SAN is doing this intentionally. Equipment Spam lag IMO works both ways. Anyways, I hopefull Fox and Null understand that equipment spam must be fixed. the last game i played against them when they did this it most certainly WAS intentional, theres not other explanation for their movements and actions in the game up untill they got that damn lag bomb in place. when their entire squad will fight THAT hard to obtain a position that ISNT an objective forsaking 3 other objectives entirely for that single point you know somethings up. not only that but after they diddnt get that depot they started setting mini lag bombs in other similarly closed in spaces near that depot to try to gain an advantage to gain the depot. eventually those small lag bombs were enough to lag to the point where blues were easyer to clean up aparently and they took the big one and immediatly set up that reverb filled room of headachy death and defended it like a mofo before they bothered taking or moving to any objectives and then defending it with half their squad like it was the most important position int he world. also becuase of server hosting if you know that the FW game is hosted in your region you can lag out your oponent more then you, making it so that you can still move but they cant :P leaving only people on the other team who are also on that server free to move. this is well known around the community for the most part, basically anyone who does it, fights against it, or like me studies it.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 535	Posted - 2013.12.22 14:41:00 - [17] - Quote im also aware of those other threads exploring the topic, they provided very useful data during my testing phase. special thanks to everyone who worked hard to figure out the lag problems in the gmae, their data was invaluble to the project. its a wierd kinda combo issue at play, since there are many sources of lag, the key to the lag bomb seems to be understanding what exactly those sources are to minimise all other sources of lag for your squad, while setting off the lag bomb to create the disaparety between teams. the chat and otehr sound issues (chats, explosives, tanks, etc) are contributing to the lag bomb as the team using the lag bomb will avoid the other sources of lag while taking advantage of different servers + the enamy not avoiding other sources of lag. this means that while both teams have to contend will the lag from the bomb itself, only one team will have to contend with the alturnate sources of lag, leaving one side to still move relativly freely. in the counter game against nyan san my squad was avoiding other sources of lag, so i was actually able to move freely after the bomb hit, so i was able to do hit and runs within the city with my quad to clean up some of their mess, but they defeneded that damn supply depot with their whole squad, i was even able to take back half the city becuase of that insistance on defending that bomb.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 2279	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:06:00 - [18] - Quote "oh noes these guys used equipment to win lets complain about it on teh forums!!" First off, calling out one corp is pathetic. Everyone uses it, and they know they do. Do you really think that the players cause the lag? Do you think that it's their fault for the equipment causing lag and framerate drops? When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 581	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:10:00 - [19] - Quote A cripple uses a crutch. Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 582	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:12:00 - [20] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Equipment caps are an iffy thing, but the best fix, aside from addressing the lag problem in general, is to put a radius around installations where equipment doesn't work. Nooo!they make for good camouflage sometimes! better to put in some kind of minimum distance between equipment deploys maybe

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 538	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:19:00 - [21] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: "oh noes these guys used equipment to win lets complain about it on teh forums!!" First off, calling out one corp is pathetic. Everyone uses it, and they know they do. Do you really think that the players cause the lag? Do you think that it's their fault for the equipment causing lag and framerate drops? yah when you specifially do and place things in optimal lag cuasing positions :P thats kinda their fault and yes ALOT of corps do this, its the sole reason why PC is meaningless now, as its become an arms race of exploit stratagys
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 2279	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:23:00 - [22] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: yah when you specifially do and place things in optimal lag cuasing positions :P thats kinda their fault and yes ALOT of corps do this, its the sole reason why PC is meaningless now, as its become an arms race of exploit stratagys The players don't make the equipment cause lag, that's what I'm trying to point out. I place equipment to try and pull the win, not to make the other team lag. More often than not I get lag too. It is terribly annoying though. When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 543	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:29:00 - [23] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: yah when you specifially do and place things in optimal lag cuasing positions :P thats kinda their fault and yes ALOT of corps do this, its the sole reason why PC is meaningless now, as its become an arms race of exploit stratagys The players don't make the equipment cause lag, that's what I'm trying to point out. I place equipment to try and pull the win, not to make the other team lag. More often than not I get lag too. It is terribly annoying though. and what im trying to point out that theres a difference between putting down equipment and getting lag, and putting down equipment in optimal positions to cause extreme lag. YOU may not purposly place equipment in optimal locations for lag, that doesnt mean that its not being used by others for that purpose.
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 714	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:01:00 - [24] - Quote Or.. you know... EMP Orbitals work too "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 543	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:03:00 - [25] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: Or.. you know... EMP Orbitals work too no they dont :P thats another advantage to placeing them in rooms, theres a roof on those things.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 803	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:08:00 - [26] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Equipment caps are an iffy thing, but the best fix, aside from addressing the lag problem in general, is to put a radius around installations where equipment doesn't work. Nooo!they make for good camouflage sometimes! better to put in some kind of minimum distance between equipment deploys maybe xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: This exploit would work if you do the same thing on other certain spots, not necessarily near a deposit. That's fine, a radius between equipment works too. I spam plenty of equipment myself but there's no reason to put two of anything (exception:rep hives) closer than 5-10m away from each other unless you are trying to pull this kind of crap. (I guess maybe on Manus peak at charlie or in ambush it makes sense to put uplinks or rep hives around a supply depot but otherwise I've always viewed it as either stupid farming behavior or lag spam.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 545	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:20:00 - [27] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Equipment caps are an iffy thing, but the best fix, aside from addressing the lag problem in general, is to put a radius around installations where equipment doesn't work. Nooo!they make for good camouflage sometimes! better to put in some kind of minimum distance between equipment deploys maybe xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: This exploit would work if you do the same thing on other certain spots, not necessarily near a deposit. That's fine, a radius between equipment works too. I spam plenty of equipment myself but there's no reason to put two of anything (exception:rep hives) closer than 5-10m away from each other unless you are trying to pull this kind of crap. (I guess maybe on Manus peak at charlie or in ambush it makes sense to put uplinks or rep hives around a supply depot but otherwise I've always viewed it as either stupid farming behavior or lag spam.) or you know fixing the bug that alows a giant feedback effect from the ECHOs overloading the map would also fix it without changing any game mechanics :P
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2419	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:25:00 - [28] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I cant wait until CCP puts a hard cap on equipment deployment , ooohh the QQ will be marvellous . wwaaaaaaa how can me and five of my squad mates be proper logis if we cant drop 52 nano hives and 64 dropuplinks round an underground supply depo where everyone gets free ammo any way ....... waaaaaaa waaaaaa , ooohhh I really cant wait just think of the tears . its has nothign to do with the amount of equipment deployed its about the SOUND effects of SPECIFIC equipment and a bug in the code that uses up WAY to much resorces when said equipment is spamed in a very small space. the supply depot is the spot because its needed to swap fits to get enough down to set the lag bomb AND the closed in space is needed to both defend it and exploit the bug. that supply depot is just the spot where they can get all 3 pieces of the puzzle needed to set up the bomb Now what I can't wait for is a set radius around things such as uplinks and nanohives within which you are unable to place anything else ('cept maybe REs) - that and a proper limit on how much equipment a single suit can deploy (ie. not being able to circumvent the nanohive cap by carrying different types or swapping suits) To me this is the answer. Having a radius set for nano hives is a good idea. What is bad about it is that REAL logis sometimes deploy a ammo hive and a triage hive strategically as they push a point with their squad or near a choke point behind cover in defense. It has negative consequences for those that actually logi, but as Lorak said above. I like to be able to move. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 804	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:33:00 - [29] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Equipment caps are an iffy thing, but the best fix, aside from addressing the lag problem in general, is to put a radius around installations where equipment doesn't work. Nooo!they make for good camouflage sometimes! better to put in some kind of minimum distance between equipment deploys maybe xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: This exploit would work if you do the same thing on other certain spots, not necessarily near a deposit. That's fine, a radius between equipment works too. I spam plenty of equipment myself but there's no reason to put two of anything (exception:rep hives) closer than 5-10m away from each other unless you are trying to pull this kind of crap. (I guess maybe on Manus peak at charlie or in ambush it makes sense to put uplinks or rep hives around a supply depot but otherwise I've always viewed it as either stupid farming behavior or lag spam.) or you know fixing the bug that alows a giant feedback effect from the ECHOs overloading the map would also fix it without changing any game mechanics :P Whatever can get fixed faster! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3768	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:50:00 - [30] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: as we all know NYAN SAN has started doing a rather..... exploitive stratagy in certain maps to win without having to rely on skill. Let me stop you right there, aren't all their strategies made to win without relying on skill. I remember when the mass driver flaylocks were fixed and they'd litterally run away in their nerfed Caldari Logistics suit.



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