DUST Search - AFK - what REALLY needs to be done?

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Obviously, there are often people parking themselves in the MCC, and in spite of the "protections" CCP have put in place to prevent it, they're just sitting there, AFK, and collecting their SP at the end of a match.

And a few of the more careful snipers have noticed that these "protections" actually have a negative impact on Snipers, while doing PRECISELY NOTHING to stop the AFK farming.

CCP have implemented a system to TRY and control it, which obviously means that kind of behaviour ISN'T intended, but it's not working. We need another way. Ideally, the "another way" we get would be a CCP staff member actively monitoring when AFK players are reported. If someone is noted by multiple players to be AFKing, then they get investigated.

If that CAN'T be done, or is, for whatever reason, deemed impractical, then there NEEDS to be a legitimate system to prevent players from staying behind the redline for an entire match, or from staying inside the MCC.

I don't care if it's an auto-kill if you don't jump from the MCC after a specific period, or if the MCC is flagged as a "redline" and the rest of the redline gets a timer which you have to abide - but a redline timer would need to be relatively generous so as not to overly punish teams that have been legitimately pushed back (although at that point, they probably want the redlining to be over quicker and getting killed off to make it happen faster might actually help them to move on to the next match.

At the moment, ANY time I see someone who I can confirm is AFKing, I will be reporting them to CCP. I have a currently-open ticket, and will either add to it if it's still open, or create a new one if it gets closed, every time I see it happening. I don't know if CCP will act. I don't know if they monitor the game close enough in general to be able to judge from just an approximate timestamp and a handful of names, or if they'll need a proper investigation of future results from those players. Maybe they can track it in an immediate sense and can tell from battle logs whether someone was actively playing or not? Maybe they can't.

Either way, they WILL continue to see such reports from me until such a time as I stop seeing AFK players in EVERY. SINGLE. MATCH.

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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4228	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:07:00 - [1] - Quote Obviously, there are often people parking themselves in the MCC, and in spite of the "protections" CCP have put in place to prevent it, they're just sitting there, AFK, and collecting their SP at the end of a match. And a few of the more careful snipers have noticed that these "protections" actually have a negative impact on Snipers, while doing PRECISELY NOTHING to stop the AFK farming. CCP have implemented a system to TRY and control it, which obviously means that kind of behaviour ISN'T intended, but it's not working. We need another way. Ideally, the "another way" we get would be a CCP staff member actively monitoring when AFK players are reported. If someone is noted by multiple players to be AFKing, then they get investigated. If that CAN'T be done, or is, for whatever reason, deemed impractical, then there NEEDS to be a legitimate system to prevent players from staying behind the redline for an entire match, or from staying inside the MCC. I don't care if it's an auto-kill if you don't jump from the MCC after a specific period, or if the MCC is flagged as a "redline" and the rest of the redline gets a timer which you have to abide - but a redline timer would need to be relatively generous so as not to overly punish teams that have been legitimately pushed back (although at that point, they probably want the redlining to be over quicker and getting killed off to make it happen faster might actually help them to move on to the next match.
abarkrishna WarRavens 189	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:11:00 - [2] - Quote I do not have time to stop killing noobs and report some douche. NEXT No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4228	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:13:00 - [3] - Quote Note player name. Look at post-match screen to see stats. Report. Next objection?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 433	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:16:00 - [4] - Quote Yea man I got kicked the first day back to playing Dust again last week. I spent a good few mins getting to a nice secure sniping position, I was actively looking through my scope and surveying the battlefield waiting for easy targets then all of a sudden im kicked. WTF lol. Then actual afkers in the MCC just turn the control upside down on a surface or strap over an elastic band and they are free to AFK. Ahh CCP how you make me sigh....
Big miku Nation of Miku 314	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:16:00 - [5] - Quote Does it matter? Most AFK on dead servers and it harms no one. I'd rather CCP focus on thing that matter to the game.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4228	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:42:00 - [6] - Quote Big miku wrote: Does it matter? Most AFK on dead servers and it harms no one. I'd rather CCP focus on thing that matter to the game. Does it matter? Yes. Only on "dead" servers? Source that confirms nobody does it elsewhere? RELIABLE data would be much appreciated. Also, adding a bunch of ACTUAL dead weight to servers that are already on low population is NOT how you keep a game alive. I'd rather CCP focus on things that matter too. AFK players are something that matters.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR F.T.U. IMMORTAL REGIME 992	Posted - 2013.12.19 01:58:00 - [7] - Quote nope AFK is low on the priority list. tell me, how does that AFK affect you. do you honestly think that AFKer is going to be some protobear at the top of the leaderboard with 40 kills? or do you think he's be the guy going 1/15 with 50 points at the bottom? Tell me, how exactly DOES a biscuit gain Valor?
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 185	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:01:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Obviously, there are often people parking themselves in the MCC, and in spite of the "protections" CCP have put in place to prevent it, they're just sitting there, AFK, and collecting their SP at the end of a match. And a few of the more careful snipers have noticed that these "protections" actually have a negative impact on Snipers, while doing PRECISELY NOTHING to stop the AFK farming. CCP have implemented a system to TRY and control it, which obviously means that kind of behaviour ISN'T intended, but it's not working. We need another way. Ideally, the "another way" we get would be a CCP staff member actively monitoring when AFK players are reported. If someone is noted by multiple players to be AFKing, then they get investigated. If that CAN'T be done, or is, for whatever reason, deemed impractical, then there NEEDS to be a legitimate system to prevent players from staying behind the redline for an entire match, or from staying inside the MCC. I don't care if it's an auto-kill if you don't jump from the MCC after a specific period, or if the MCC is flagged as a "redline" and the rest of the redline gets a timer which you have to abide - but a redline timer would need to be relatively generous so as not to overly punish teams that have been legitimately pushed back (although at that point, they probably want the redlining to be over quicker and getting killed off to make it happen faster might actually help them to move on to the next match. At the moment, ANY time I see someone who I can confirm is AFKing, I will be reporting them to CCP. I have a currently-open ticket, and will either add to it if it's still open, or create a new one if it gets closed, every time I see it happening. I don't know if CCP will act. I don't know if they monitor the game close enough in general to be able to judge from just an approximate timestamp and a handful of names, or if they'll need a proper investigation of future results from those players. Maybe they can track it in an immediate sense and can tell from battle logs whether someone was actively playing or not? Maybe they can't. Either way, they WILL continue to see such reports from me until such a time as I stop seeing AFK players in EVERY. SINGLE. MATCH. Drunk logic time! Make it so if they dont earn so many points in a match, stuff that can be done by random ble berry, they get kicked out the damn match. After 3 minutes anyone and everyone should have at least 25 points. Or make it so if they dnt fire their weapon or move a certain distance by the middle of the match or so,ething. Dedicated scout. New player tutor; scout instructor Scrambler Pistol dedication
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4228	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:06:00 - [9] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Or make it so if they dnt fire their weapon or move a certain distance by the middle of the match or so,ething. You mean the system we already have in place where a quick tap of the fire button is all that's required, achieveable easily without even needing to change channel, and only minimally impractical to set up to happen automatically? Or you can counter it completely by sticking a rubber band around the controller? Yeah, THAT DOESN'T WORK. THAT'S THE POINT. And to make things even better, IT UNFAIRLY PUNISHES SNIPERS WHO ARE LEGITIMATELY PLAYING. Well done on proposing EXACTLY the problematic system we already have. At least you're drunk, what's CCP's excuse? People were telling them this was a stupid idea WAY in advance of them actually implementing it...
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 2203	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:06:00 - [10] - Quote Is the AFK QQ really coming back? Honestly, I thought we were over all this... When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 686	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:07:00 - [11] - Quote Before you "fix" AFK you need to fix Protostomping, improve the Academy, and fix matchmaking. Until then, I'm AFKing on my alts. Deal with it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4228	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:09:00 - [12] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Is the AFK QQ really coming back? Honestly, I thought we were over all this... If there was still an active thread about it, I'd have bumped that instead. As it stands, new thread because it's still not fixed, and still needs it. Also, there will be ongoing reports to CCP's support team until the issue is resolved or they start actually MONITORING the game instead of having an automated kick system that gets more false positives than legitimate ones.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 887	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:14:00 - [13] - Quote Afk and tk should make you eligible for a vote to kick. If you do neither of these things you would have nothing to worry about. You can currently get an idle kick while in the OB map. How am I supposed to use teamwork to kill a tank if I can't track a tank on map while my guys are monitoring his module status?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5941	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:16:00 - [14] - Quote Well, if you see AFKers in a factional warfare match, then all you need to do is spawn next to them and put a bullet through their head. Thankfully, team killing is enabled in FW. If they are truly AFK, they would get kicked from the match for not respawning in time. If this is NOT in a factional warfare match, then I would suggest the following. Considering that CCP has a long history of dealing with bot users in Eve Online, they could implement a system in which an algorithm runs in the background looking for any patterns in player behavior that is clearly indicative of an AFKer. This can be the perfect counter to the rubber-band AFKers while mitigating any problems for the legitimate snipers who often stay in one spot for prolonged periods of time in order to do their job. For example: Player A is a legit sniper while Player B is a AFKer with a rubber band on his controller. The system sees that Player A is aiming his weapon and occasionally moving one foot to the left or right every now and then or maybe an occasional shot fired. The system must be able to tell if you are aiming your gun in inconsistent patterns such as when trying to get a moving target or you're providing overwatch for your squad. As a result, the system senses that Player A is ok to continue playing. But then the system sees that Player B has been running around in a tight circle since the beginning of the match or is seen running endlessly into a wall for no apparent reason. The system flags the player. But here is another twist. In addition to immediately kicking Player B for AFKing, the system keeps a close record of that player since now that player has been flagged recently. The system sees that Player B is AFKing again in another match and then another and another for next week or two. Suddenly, out of nowhere, the system decides that it has had enough and sends a memo to CCP staff notifying them of this activity. Upon review, the staff decides that Player B needs to be thoroughly punished and as a result sends the ban hammer flying his way. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 2203	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:18:00 - [15] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Is the AFK QQ really coming back? Honestly, I thought we were over all this... If there was still an active thread about it, I'd have bumped that instead. As it stands, new thread because it's still not fixed, and still needs it. Also, there will be ongoing reports to CCP's support team until the issue is resolved or they start actually MONITORING the game instead of having an automated kick system that gets more false positives than legitimate ones. Because everyone got over it, after the AFK timer came out. Then people realized that you could just use rubber bands, and no one made any threads about it anymore. It's pointless to even complain, not like anything's going to happen When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 131	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:19:00 - [16] - Quote This is part of why the skill point system needs to be rebuilt in general. As long as you can be rewarded for standing still people WILL find an exploit. When CCP spent months "working" on this afk system many players had literally circumvented it within seconds of entering the first match that the system was in place. Stop giving skill points for just being in battle and relate them to something meaningful and AFKing goes away.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5941	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:22:00 - [17] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Is the AFK QQ really coming back? Honestly, I thought we were over all this... If there was still an active thread about it, I'd have bumped that instead. As it stands, new thread because it's still not fixed, and still needs it. Also, there will be ongoing reports to CCP's support team until the issue is resolved or they start actually MONITORING the game instead of having an automated kick system that gets more false positives than legitimate ones. Because everyone got over it, after the AFK timer came out. Then people realized that you could just use rubber bands, and no one made any threads about it anymore. It's pointless to even complain, not like anything's going to happen The rubber band is the very reason why CCP needs to develop an algorithm to detect such things. This is the same thing that's currently being applied to Eve Online to counter bot users. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5941	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:23:00 - [18] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: This is part of why the skill point system needs to be rebuilt in general. As long as you can be rewarded for standing still people WILL find an exploit. When CCP spent months "working" on this afk system many players had literally circumvented it within seconds of entering the first match that the system was in place. Stop giving skill points for just being in battle and relate them to something meaningful and AFKing goes away. I have to agree with this. If an algorithm cannot be created, then the best solution is to take away any reason to AFK in the first place. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Green Living Scions of Athra 1094	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:35:00 - [19] - Quote I been AFK all day long. I usually pick the Oceania servers, but lack of games there has forced me back into the North American servers. Once they come up with a rollover SP system (never) then I will continue to AFK. I purchase a three day booster almost every week and AFK until I cap, then play the game at my leisure. Effectively, I'm paying CCP to AFK, so it's allll good. And if you ain't down with that, I got three words for ya. DEAL WITH IT.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4228	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:35:00 - [20] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Is the AFK QQ really coming back? Honestly, I thought we were over all this... If there was still an active thread about it, I'd have bumped that instead. As it stands, new thread because it's still not fixed, and still needs it. Also, there will be ongoing reports to CCP's support team until the issue is resolved or they start actually MONITORING the game instead of having an automated kick system that gets more false positives than legitimate ones. Because everyone got over it, after the AFK timer came out. Then people realized that you could just use rubber bands, and no one made any threads about it anymore. It's pointless to even complain, not like anything's going to happen This attitude is the wrong one to have. Even EA are better than "nothing will happen" - even with the games they CAN'T fix. I spent a little over a year pushing for a fix for Syndicate, asking both EA and Starbreeze. Starbreeze - they guys with a great reputation - had developed the game with EA as publishers. Every contact with them was a smokescreen answer saying "we need to hear from EA" or "talk to EA about why it's not happening" and avoiding any commitments. They did everything they could to make it look like EA weren't letting them do their jobs - UNTIL several people posted emails from EA Help where we had been directly advised that EA had forwarded on the details of the problems and requested a patch, at which point, the Starbreeze forums were suddenly "down for maintenance". They still haven't come back up more than 6 months later, and are now just collecting spambots. But, eventually, when it became clear - either through getting sick of waiting or someone at Starbreeze finally owning up - that there was no patch coming. EA being nowhere near as bad as their reputation (and far better than Ubisoft Support) offered the few remaining Syndicate fans who were keeping the help tickets alive FREE GAMES as compensation, along with personally-written apology letters (I know they aren't form letters because I saw 3 different letters written to different people who were in touch with EA regarding the issues with the game). They also offered a selection of games instead of just saying "here have this" to everyone who complained regardless of what we wanted or whether we had the game in question or not. If EA can handle a complaint adequately even when NOT resolving the issue, anyone should be able to (except maybe Ubisoft who apparently ban people for finding problems with their Support process)
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3427	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:42:00 - [21] - Quote Make the game good. Then that will stop afking GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Green Living Scions of Athra 1094	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:44:00 - [22] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Make the game good. Then that will stop afking Bout sums it up. Thread over. Move along people.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 2206	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:44:00 - [23] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: If EA can handle a complaint adequately even when NOT resolving the issue, anyone should be able to Apparently you don't know CCP When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 338	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:47:00 - [24] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: This is part of why the skill point system needs to be rebuilt in general. As long as you can be rewarded for standing still people WILL find an exploit. When CCP spent months "working" on this afk system many players had literally circumvented it within seconds of entering the first match that the system was in place. Stop giving skill points for just being in battle and relate them to something meaningful and AFKing goes away. Then stop protosto.ping so players can have the chance to do something meaningful. They added in the sp system we have so that players can still make appreciable gains in so even if they are getting roflstomped by proto squads, or in 1.7, tank spam. However, that means some people will find a method to exploit it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4231	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:53:00 - [25] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If EA can handle a complaint adequately even when NOT resolving the issue, anyone should be able to Apparently you don't know CCP They've demonstrated themselves to be far more WILLING to listen to customer feedback than Ubisoft have been in the past. CCP's main problem isn't a lack of effort, it's a consistent failure to implement things in even a remotely sane manner. They actually SEE player feedback, but their attempts at acting on it are frequently horribly wrong. We tell them exactly what NOT to do to try and "solve" a problem once they've said they're working on a fix, but by then, they're ALREADY doing it wrong, and it's apparently somehow too late for them to realise we have a point and they need to change their approach. So we get the next "fix" which just swaps one set of problems for a slightly different set.
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 132	Posted - 2013.12.19 02:54:00 - [26] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: They added in the sp system we have so that players can still make appreciable gains in so even if they are getting roflstomped by proto squads, or in 1.7, tank spam. However, that means some people will find a method to exploit it. I agree and here is my solution Skillpoint distribution 2.0
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4232	Posted - 2013.12.19 03:13:00 - [27] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: They added in the sp system we have so that players can still make appreciable gains in so even if they are getting roflstomped by proto squads, or in 1.7, tank spam. However, that means some people will find a method to exploit it. I agree and here is my solution Skillpoint distribution 2.0 I like this idea, and have posted in your thread with some additional suggestions.

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