Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
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Posted - 2013.12.16 01:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Sarducar Kahn wrote:It's a free yearly respec, plus name changing which CCP doesn't like. It's never happening. How many do you get in a year anyway thinking about how many and all the changes that has occurred ???? It happens already and just partially did a few weeks ago . The fact that some specific circumstances leave no other choice than a respec every now and then does not mean that therefore "f***k it, unconditional respecs for everybody" is the best approach.
Also this is like the fourth thread on this subject that is essentially a variation of "people learn" and/or "balance is not the player's fault" in an hour or so.
Can we please chose one (just one) thread to properly discuss this or will I have to read the most basic of popular "respec plx" gambits every few minutes until the end of times?
Seriously, there is noway we're getting anything done in terms of a consensus with that kind of constant fragmentation across, by now, hundreds of threads.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
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Posted - 2013.12.16 02:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
Check the time this was written . I don't know ANYTHING about those other post and my internet JUST came back on from being out.
I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt when you say that you legitimitely haven't seen the other threads and respond more thoroughly to your suggestion.
Your hope that a yearly respec (plus character change/rename) will end this debate is fallacious. I've been around for three respecs now and the only thing that every respec achieved with a striking consistency (apart from worsening game balance) is a wave of new threads asking for the next respec.
The perceived need and untility of respecs is normal and everyone will have some situation in which they deem a respec justified/necessary/helpfull for their personal enjoyment or the overall health of the game. The idea of respeccing has invaded almost every genre that has some form of progression system so the workings and benefits of a New Eden style skill system are just unintuitive and seemingly punishing for new players who are not used to it.
Regardless of whether this perception is accurate (I have reason to believe it's not) there's nothing that will "end" this "debate" (read: regular threads asking the same question and providing the same arguments) until everyone in "need" for a respec can have one the very instant they feel the need for one. Preferably free...
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1088
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Posted - 2013.12.16 04:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
And you just don't see how this will end that ??? This is not a respec it's more like a retooling and it's an option where once it's taken , that's the one for the year and can only effect the main character . I just can't understand the logic behind people who try to help the game and the system ( the argument between AV v.s. HAV's ) and come up with solutions to problems where everyone can gain something ( by choice ) ... is always fought with massive resistance .
No i don't. In fact, based on the previous occurences of respecs i'm quite positive that it won't. I understand the scope of your suggestion. An option to change your race has been confirmed to be on CCPs TBA long time ago and name changes are out of question for obvious reasons. The only thing that could be discussed, and that you seem to focus on, is the respec part. One respec/retooling (call it as you please) a year will be of no value for the vast majority of players since this majority will not stick around for a full 12 months and thus never make use of your proposed mechanic to begin with.
Neither will it reduce the amount of people asking for more, or solve any of the underlying issues that led to the demand in the first place. It can't since it's missing and ignoring the mechanics that make people want a respec feature. A mandatory respec after graduating out of the academy is much easer, less controversial and does a better job at helping players a little without making way for too much abuse.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
Have you ever seen a thread where someone ( new or otherwise ) has said that they have placed their skill points into a skill that doesn't help ( now that can be said and has been said about swarm launchers ) so they would like to place them in a position that would ACTUALLY help them ??? This would solve that problem and I just knew and said it in my post that people will " dummy " this ideal down because there are SOOOOOO many narrow minded people who play this game and if something doesn't give them an advantage then they just QQ about it and CCP nerf's or buff's it which kills the item all together , case in point with tanks as they stand now .
This game is not fun , it's opportunistic and those who have the opportunity to take advantage of those who are in lesser roles will and want to do any and everything to keep that advantage . Isn't that the argument with PROTOSTOMPING as well ??? This is a mechanism that can give an individual a chance to even the playing field and since they have become wiser from experience would help them place their skill points in a position that will help . This is for everyone and I'm sure THIS would not be a reason for arguments seeing as how EVERYONE can experience this and NO ONE is excluded .
That's too much like right and all you people understand is wrong and being opportunistic so you can keep your foot on the throats of those beneath you . Hate anything that EVEN's the playing field and that's CLEAR and PLAIN to see .
And that is specifically what i've been talking about in my very first reply. Of course i've seen countless threads of players that made faulty skill choices. I do not know a single player that made everything right on his first run.
Do you now expect me to explain yet again why this is not as much of an issue as people make it out to be; Do i have to explain again that protostomping, bad balancing and the overall hostile nature of Dust towards new players each are seperate, complex issues that require their own solutions and that they not only can't be fixed with a respec every year, but will only get worse if you allow veterans to relocate millions of SP excactly where they need them to keep the upper hand, while the new player gets another proficiency level of a module he can't even afford to use consistently if he even makes it through the first year...?
I won't.
It has been explained several times why regular respecs are mostly going to hurt new players and benefit Veterans almost exlusively.
It has been explained that the challenges new players face can, and should, be fixed directly instead of adding a mechanic that does nothing worthwhile for newer players whatsoever and dilutes one of the games' core mechanics to their disadvantage.
No, i will not dig through this wall of unsubstantiated assertions, ignore the forest of strawmen and implicit ad hominem remarks and write several, long posts that could aswell be copypasted from my previous discussions just so that this thread can be dead and forgotten in a day or two at most just like all the others before it.
Use the search function. Get an overview of the issues, get an overview of the proposed solutions and their respective pros and cons.
Then when your idea is not a concoction talking points that have been made, refuted, made again, got lost in personal attacks, restated and debunked yet again but a thought out concept that has your name on it and your work in it so we can skip through the "evil vet" conspiracy bullshit and get a reasonable, produtive argument, come back.
Until then, there should be another respec thread around somewhere by the time i finished this post.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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