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Jason Pearson 3392	Posted - 2013.12.15 02:44:00 - [1] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Damage mods should definitely go to low slots, vehicle and infantry. Why should the ones with the highest HP ceiling get the ability to gank and tank while the ones with the lowest HP ceiling have no option other than getting wrecked? This is why infantry is armor > shield right now. Disagree, Shields have better tank than Armor, Armor needs the extra damage to fight back. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3398	Posted - 2013.12.15 04:17:00 - [2] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Cosgar wrote: Damage mods should definitely go to low slots, vehicle and infantry. Why should the ones with the highest HP ceiling get the ability to gank and tank while the ones with the lowest HP ceiling have no option other than getting wrecked? This is why infantry is armor > shield right now. Disagree, Shields have better tank than Armor, Armor needs the extra damage to fight back. Uhhh that's flat wrong. You have better regen thats on full time. You have higher HP. A free regenerating buffer, and slightly weaker resists. And to balance out your "weaker resists" you get 30% more damage, the option to be faster than any shield tank, active scanners, CRUs. It's ridiculous that you get massive options for your utility slots and shield vehicles get 0 options. Wow, so you bumped twice in half an hour, gg. Anyways, "you, you, you", I'm a shield tanker, so none of this "you get this" or "you get that" bull, stop trying to kid someone with all his SP focused on being a better shield tanker. Shield Tanks are stronger and able to stay on the map longer due to their ammo, most AV does less damage to it and it doesn't need reps, however most armor tank fits are Rep, Rep, Hardener, my Shield tank build has plenty of options, Damage mods, boosters, extenders, always a hardener though. In my lows I have ammo and an armor rep, I found out earlier I can fit a complex light armor rep on it without losing any shield effectiveness, win. So, Armor Tanks need to have atleast one armor rep in their slot, and hardeners are a must, that's two slots. We need just a hardener to be useful as shield tankers, that's 1 slot mandatory, the rest you can fit however you want, that's four slots, the Armor tank has three spare and don't have enough CPU to make things work. Gunnlogis seem to be for pushing, Madrugars seem to be support. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3398	Posted - 2013.12.15 04:32:00 - [3] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Cosgar wrote: Damage mods should definitely go to low slots, vehicle and infantry. Why should the ones with the highest HP ceiling get the ability to gank and tank while the ones with the lowest HP ceiling have no option other than getting wrecked? This is why infantry is armor > shield right now. Disagree, Shields have better tank than Armor, Armor needs the extra damage to fight back. Uhhh that's flat wrong. You have better regen thats on full time. You have higher HP. A free regenerating buffer, and slightly weaker resists. And to balance out your "weaker resists" you get 30% more damage, the option to be faster than any shield tank, active scanners, CRUs. It's ridiculous that you get massive options for your utility slots and shield vehicles get 0 options. Wow, so you bumped twice in half an hour, gg. Anyways, "you, you, you", I'm a shield tanker, so none of this "you get this" or "you get that" bull, stop trying to kid someone with all his SP focused on being a better shield tanker. Shield Tanks are stronger and able to stay on the map longer due to their ammo, most AV does less damage to it and it doesn't need reps, however most armor tank fits are Rep, Rep, Hardener, my Shield tank build has plenty of options, Damage mods, boosters, extenders, always a hardener though. In my lows I have ammo and an armor rep, I found out earlier I can fit a complex light armor rep on it without losing any shield effectiveness, win. So, Armor Tanks need to have atleast one armor rep in their slot, and hardeners are a must, that's two slots. We need just a hardener to be useful as shield tankers, that's 1 slot mandatory, the rest you can fit however you want, that's four slots, the Armor tank has three spare and don't have enough CPU to make things work. Gunnlogis seem to be for pushing, Madrugars seem to be support. Pearson youve made a lot of good vehicle posts but this is ridiculous. Av is mostly irrelevent without a vehicle backing it up. Ammo is a non issue for missiles and rails, dunno about blasters. Shield tanks "must" fit things too in their primary slots its dumb to put that as a complaint. You rep more, have higher hp, and a free refilling buffer. Who cares about the 20% resists. And none of that takes into consideration that armor have awesome options for their utility slots and shield vehicles have 0 things to choose from. For Shields, you need a hardener, that leaves you with 2 highs, 2 lows. For Armor, you need a hardener and a rep, that leaves you with 2 highs, 2 lows I'm telling you if I wanted to fit utility mods on my Gunnlogi, I could and still be effective at taking out Maddys, infact I use a damage mod on one because you don't need much on the high side. You can choose from any of the utilities same as a Maddy, you just don't have to have two hardeners to be invincible all the time (like most people are doing.) You say who cares about 20% resists? I care about 20% resists, because that is atleast 360 damage off of a proto rail shot, meaning I can tear that tank a new one because I'm still alive. Also AV can become relevant if CCP hurry up and put in ewar, things like webs to stop them in their tracks (or slow them down massively) so AVers can launch a barrage at the tank before they can escape. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3399	Posted - 2013.12.15 04:47:00 - [4] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: 360 damage off a proto rail? What about 1k more of your main stat? What about a free regenerating 1k(how much is it now? I know its less now) buffer? Lows are useles so a gunnlogi has two free slots and a madrugar has 4. Again this isn't including higher HP, better regen, faster speed, etc. It's a simple imbalance of utility slots that needs to be remedied. Massive delay due to losing the buffer means the shield isn't reliable for madrugars. Lows aren't useless and if you maintain that, you're not looking at what you can use there. You can utilise CPU and Powergrid modules to enhance your tank on shields, making you a lot stronger, you can also fit all three prototype turrets with ease (iirc most madrugars struggle to fit proto turrets, and if they want PG or CPU they sacrifice tank) Where are you getting four from? What did I say, they need a hardener and they need an armor rep, that's 3 spare slots, and if they've got a proto turret chances are they're using one high and the other low for an extra rep or hardener. They have tougher fitting than we do. Like I said, Gunnlogis for offensive, Madrugars for defense and support it seems, and the utilities can still be used on the Gunnlogi. Also, ever fitted an Armor Gunnlogi? It works and ***** people up, :) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3399	Posted - 2013.12.15 05:13:00 - [5] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: You said a hardener and a repairer left a madrugar with 2 highs 2 lows. I took your word for it. I don't see how you keep denying it. Free buffer, extra 1k HP, faster tank, and two slots to fit any utility you can imagine. You keep avoiding those topics because there's nothing to reply to it. Also you can get a 25% reduction to shield depleted recharge for your madrugar in the shield core upgrades. Armor vehicles have utility slots. Shield vehicles get none. This is an imbalance. My apologies on that, it's 5am and I don't know why I'm still awake lol. Two Highs, One Low**** I deny it because I play, and because I hammer Madrugars in a Gunnlogi and believe their role is defensive support. The extra 1k hp doesn't mean much, we've got 20% more resists, which on a gunnlogi with 4000 shields (minus about 15) is 800 shields, so in fairness the extra HP is about 200, not a lot considering. You can get the same for Shield Tanks :) You can also have an Armor Buffer with Armor Rep, you can have quite a large tank on a Gunnlogi. Like I said before, you have access to utilities, you need a hardener on a shield tank, that's all you need to be effective. Also "two slots to fit any utility you can imagine", tell me something, have you tried fitting a madrugar yet? Do it like a Gunnlogi? Fit a proto blaster, proto rep, hardener and extender (like I do with a gunnlogi) and tell me how you find fitting those utilities, I guarantee you're going to have a hard time. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3399	Posted - 2013.12.15 05:38:00 - [6] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: It's useless for shield vehicles because well you should know, if your shields are ever depleted, you're either fine or dead. It's not just extra HP like shields are for armor vehicles.And the HP difference is huge. The free shields plus better HP on armor stats. I have not fit an armor vehicle since 1.7 but it doesn't really matter. Armor vehicles have options while shield vehicles do not. I see armor tanks with proto turrets nitrous and dmods all the time so I know its not impossible. You also seem to think this is purely about tanks but its about all vehicles. Options vs no options. All I know is I'mma be ridiculous if I have more things for utilities, very ridiculous and then I'll be the guy on the forums demanding a nerf. Oh and that delay isn't important? I **** you not I almost died because of that delay, Armor tank chasing me down I keep weaving in and out of hills at 300 armor and no hardeners. Still wasn't ok, the shields kept me from dying and then they disappeared again and I managed to get behind something in the redline. Oh and it matters a shitton, IF YOU DON'T EXPERIENCE SOMETHING, YOU CANNOT HAVE A VALID OPINION ON IT. So go and fit an armor tank. And dude, running a Scanner, Hardener, Booster just for you, am not going to die, same as my other fits, I've got utilities :) And Ammo and an Armor Rep. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3399	Posted - 2013.12.15 05:50:00 - [7] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: It's useless for shield vehicles because well you should know, if your shields are ever depleted, you're either fine or dead. It's not just extra HP like shields are for armor vehicles.And the HP difference is huge. The free shields plus better HP on armor stats. I have not fit an armor vehicle since 1.7 but it doesn't really matter. Armor vehicles have options while shield vehicles do not. I see armor tanks with proto turrets nitrous and dmods all the time so I know its not impossible. You also seem to think this is purely about tanks but its about all vehicles. Options vs no options. All I know is I'mma be ridiculous if I have more things for utilities, very ridiculous and then I'll be the guy on the forums demanding a nerf. Oh and that delay isn't important? I **** you not I almost died because of that delay, Armor tank chasing me down I keep weaving in and out of hills at 300 armor and no hardeners. Still wasn't ok, the shields kept me from dying and then they disappeared again and I managed to get behind something in the redline. Oh and it matters a shitton, IF YOU DON'T EXPERIENCE SOMETHING, YOU CANNOT HAVE A VALID OPINION ON IT. So go and fit an armor tank. And dude, running a Scanner, Hardener, Booster just for you, am not going to die, same as my other fits, I've got utilities :) And Ammo and an Armor Rep. I've never had an experience where I dipped into my armor where I wasn't either 100% fine or dead. I never even wasted the points on depleted delay. And I can see armor vehicles with more HP than me. Nitrous mods, and dmods. I know it can be done because people are doing it. If you Target a tank it will tell you if they have a dmod active. Utility vs no utility. But I'm using utilities at no sacrifice to my tank. Damage mods on my rails, scanners on my blasters etc and still stomping armor tanks. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3399	Posted - 2013.12.15 06:07:00 - [8] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I dunk on armor tanks as well because I'm better than them and in a squad. I also get dunked on when someone of equal skills finds me. That's not the issue. The issue is armor vehicles have utility options while having the better tank. As in ehp. And again this is NOT about just tanks. It's an imbalance across all 3 vehicle types. But it has an effect on Tanks, which must not be hidden. Armor tanks have requirements in place that Shield tanks don't need, like the fact we don't need any reps, we can also get more ammo and armor tanking abilities in the low slots, which makes more eHP. You cannot discount it, a Gunnlogi would be the only tank to use because it doesn't need reps, has better hardeners, has INSTANT health regeneration through boosters, can stick on an Armor Rep, can have double the ammo capacity, and now I can place a damage mod instead of ammo because my missiles didn't destroy maddies in a single clip fast enough. I don't see any need to transfer current things over, I could see a use in nanofibres being brought back for lows, but nothing needs to be taken from highs to make lows better. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3400	Posted - 2013.12.15 06:20:00 - [9] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I dunk on armor tanks as well because I'm better than them and in a squad. I also get dunked on when someone of equal skills finds me. That's not the issue. The issue is armor vehicles have utility options while having the better tank. As in ehp. And again this is NOT about just tanks. It's an imbalance across all 3 vehicle types. But it has an effect on Tanks, which must not be hidden. Armor tanks have requirements in place that Shield tanks don't need, like the fact we don't need any reps, we can also get more ammo and armor tanking abilities in the low slots, which makes more eHP. You cannot discount it, a Gunnlogi would be the only tank to use because it doesn't need reps, has better hardeners, has INSTANT health regeneration through boosters, can stick on an Armor Rep, can have double the ammo capacity, and now I can place a damage mod instead of ammo because my missiles didn't destroy maddies in a single clip fast enough. I don't see any need to transfer current things over, I could see a use in nanofibres being brought back for lows, but nothing needs to be taken from highs to make lows better. Ammo does not matter. It's never once been an issue for me once. The fact that you keep bringing up armor in lows for gunnlogis just goes to show armor vehicles are better. The only difference between shield mods and armor mods is boosters. In every other single aspect armor vehicles have the better end of the stick. Most of my gunnlogi fits don't fit boosters because i need a dmod to be competitive. Utility vs no utility. Options vs no options. I have armor reps in my lows because I'm not an idiot, and I have ammo there because I stay out on the field without supply depots and dont recall my vehicle and then bring it out again full of ammo. Armor seriously doesn't have the better end of the stick at all, We tank so much better, we survive AV so much easier. I feel bad for Armor Tanks because Shield Tanks are better a lot of ways. Also you keep refering to things like Damage Mods, Scanners and injectors like they're the most important options in the game, like they're a massive need not a bonus. Each tank needs incentives to be used. And lol, damage mod to stay competitive. You have options, you just don't like them. Maybe you spec'd the wrong tank, why aren't you driving a Madrugar? King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3402	Posted - 2013.12.15 06:31:00 - [10] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I dunk on armor tanks as well because I'm better than them and in a squad. I also get dunked on when someone of equal skills finds me. That's not the issue. The issue is armor vehicles have utility options while having the better tank. As in ehp. And again this is NOT about just tanks. It's an imbalance across all 3 vehicle types. But it has an effect on Tanks, which must not be hidden. Armor tanks have requirements in place that Shield tanks don't need, like the fact we don't need any reps, we can also get more ammo and armor tanking abilities in the low slots, which makes more eHP. You cannot discount it, a Gunnlogi would be the only tank to use because it doesn't need reps, has better hardeners, has INSTANT health regeneration through boosters, can stick on an Armor Rep, can have double the ammo capacity, and now I can place a damage mod instead of ammo because my missiles didn't destroy maddies in a single clip fast enough. I don't see any need to transfer current things over, I could see a use in nanofibres being brought back for lows, but nothing needs to be taken from highs to make lows better. Ammo does not matter. It's never once been an issue for me once. The fact that you keep bringing up armor in lows for gunnlogis just goes to show armor vehicles are better. The only difference between shield mods and armor mods is boosters. In every other single aspect armor vehicles have the better end of the stick. Most of my gunnlogi fits don't fit boosters because i need a dmod to be competitive. Utility vs no utility. Options vs no options. I have armor reps in my lows because I'm not an idiot, and I have ammo there because I stay out on the field without supply depots and dont recall my vehicle and then bring it out again full of ammo. Armor seriously doesn't have the better end of the stick at all, We tank so much better, we survive AV so much easier. I feel bad for Armor Tanks because Shield Tanks are better a lot of ways. Also you keep refering to things like Damage Mods, Scanners and injectors like they're the most important options in the game, like they're a massive need not a bonus. Each tank needs incentives to be used. And lol, damage mod to stay competitive. You have options, you just don't like them. Maybe you spec'd the wrong tank, why aren't you driving a Madrugar? how is more main HP, faster repairs, faster tank, free buffer hp, and options for your utility slots the short end of the stick? And caldari because caldari strong. By main HP you mean HP without actives, right? in which case don't count for much. Buffer HP - We have 20% resists Faster Repairs - They need to fill slots for these "faster repairs", and we both rep every second, only we suffer a delay if we go below a damage threshold, which is like 3 seconds. Faster movement - Faster acceleration and better handling Also, Swarms, Missiles, Rails and Forges all have additional damage against Armor and are weaker against shields. There is no short end of the stick really, each tank has different options and different fits, no need in taking from one tank to give to the other. Rather than make a thread about how Madrugars are obviously the best, which from my input is proof enough that it's more of an opinion based thing rather than a fact, you could be making suggestions for new modules for each type of slot which benefit vehicles in different ways :) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.

Jason Pearson 3441	Posted - 2013.12.15 18:30:00 - [11] - Quote Wait, wouldn't removing things in the highs slots technically mean we're nerfing armor vehicles? King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.

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