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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3125
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lets see how games are after 1.7:
FW war:
If you play for Amarr or caldari you better be Q syncing or you will be Ultimatly stomped. Its not about the QUALITY of the players , its more about the QUANTITY of players the Gallente and Matari side have,making it easy for the m to Zerg the oposing factions and control the districts easier. Example: GÖªCaldari has 4 Full quads playing tonight and Gallente has 7. EVEN if by some miracle Scotty decided to put 4 squads vs 4 squads. There will still be 3 Gallente squads stomping on Caldari Randoms, making it impossible for them to recover districts. This mechanic HAS TO BE CHANGED. As it is is not fair for factions to be winning merely because of numbers and not necessarily skill.
FW needs to work similarily as the META level of equipment. Depending on the Level of the team and equipment used,squads that the team has,and other data...Depending on this the winner receives certain level of points on the area: Say you won with your 3 Q-Synced squads! yay! vs 16 Random reds? Then the progress for that district will be minimal if anything. If you win vs 2 full proto squads,you might as well win the area immediately.
Or something around the lines.
VEHICLES & AV:
After analizing data, playing extensivley both with AV and tanks for the past 2 days i reached a conclusion:
THERE IS AV vs VEHICLE BALANCE.
Yes i've said it. This balance has been achieved by CCP. Vehicles are almost perfect except tanks are WAY to fast....
AV is a little under powered, but hey.Its manageable.(Still think swarms should have 250 mt range) After their modules are down tanks are pretty killable...
CCP wanted powerful vehicles while modules were up and weak without them and thats how they are. as from now i will try and stop requesting TANK NERFS since im convinced they are pretty balanced.(again,except for speed) Then why do i have a feeling that something is still wrong? Why do i get in a domination game with 10 blue dots and 6+ of them are tanks? and the others are snipers because they wont risk running to the objective? I mean if i wanted to play a game for vehicles i would be playing EVE not DUST.
I'll say whats wrong= THEIR NUMBERS.
CCP gave us a game that has 16 vs 16 battles and the fact that a team can deploy 5+ tanks BREAKS the balance.Because a LOT of the enemy team will need to change to AV to deal with the threat,while the enemy infantry kills them and take the objectives. Remember: AV infantry has to fight both vs Vehicles and AI infantry. While tanks only have to mind AV infantry. And AI Infantry avoids vehicles ad kills AV. Tanks ARE the biggest threat to infantry and there by the real issue right now as skilled DS pilots (offensive) are rare,and LAV's are mostly used for transport. TANKS are balanced and still they are breaking the game.
In order to be able to PLAY this game effective CCP needs to redo their vehicle limitations for this 16 vs 16 games,not based in an overall total,but a max limitation PER vehicle type.
Per team Maximum: GÖª 2 Tanks GÖª 2 Dropships GÖª 3 Lavs
With these vehicle limitations we have true balance IMO.Why? Well without NERFING tanks there can be 2 very powerful vehicles that while they are a threat, they are a threat that CANNOT BE PRESENT in every part of the map at the same time. 2 Dropships, for fast transport and Tank Counters. 3 LAv's for team transport. I mean you dont need 4 LAVs for 5 people....share . With 2 tanks, 2 Dropships and 3 LAV's not only the WHOLE 16 players can be in vehicles at a time, BUT even if a team reaches the limit on vehicles the other team will be able to respond easier,not having to deal with 4+ tanks AT THE SAME TIME...
I think most of us can agree that dealing with God tanks is annoying,but we are willing to take it so that tankers are happy with the game too. But tankers must think of infantry and in order to let us enjoy the FPS past of the game we need to reduce the amount of Tanks on the field.
RIFLES and Infantry balance:
Rifles are pretty Balanced in my opinion. You must think: ''Checkmate finally lost it! saying tanks are and Rifles are balanced XD'' Nah hear me out. ALL RIFLE's ARE OP. there by they are all BALANCED with EACH OTHER. I mean i use SCR and A.Combat Rifle, and i really dont think i have ANY advantage at all over my enemy while they are Nailing me at 80 Mts with a RR or at close Quartes killing me with a Duvolle. This is great because ALL weapons are powerfull and feel like weapons taht are worth my ISK.
Now , Rifles are balanced with each other but they are not balanced with the rest of the weapons: SMG: They are pretty powerful. No change needed IMO Shotguns:Need more Damage.If they acn get close with all the range and rifles going around they kind of deserve a kill.No MED frame should survive 2 shots from a shotgun at CQ. N.Knives: A LOT more damage HMG: They need a damage increase or dispersion rate reduction, along with a RANGE increase. If aPLASMA Rifle , or BLASTER rifle can reach 45mts at proto level.I think the HMG deserves at LEAST 40 mts at Proto level too. (basic Variant) Plasma cannon: Reload speed buff SCR-P: Are pretty good , i wouldn't change them....
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Overall, CCP ,the game is good except for some faults here and there (like massive lag sometimes and getting kicked randomly). The problem is you are killing the FPS aspect of the game with so many powerful, cheap vehicles that barely have a counter. Please fix this and let us enjoy the game...
Ty for your time.
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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Tectonic Fusion
715
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agreed.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
6198
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Lets see how games are after 1.7:
FW war:
If you play for Amarr or caldari you better be Q syncing or you will be Ultimatly stomped. Its not about the QUALITY of the players , its more about the QUANTITY of players the Gallente and Matari side have,making it easy for the m to Zerg the oposing factions and control the districts easier. Example: GÖªCaldari has 4 Full quads playing tonight and Gallente has 7. EVEN if by some miracle Scotty decided to put 4 squads vs 4 squads. There will still be 3 Gallente squads stomping on Caldari Randoms, making it impossible for them to recover districts. This mechanic HAS TO BE CHANGED. As it is is not fair for factions to be winning merely because of numbers and not necessarily skill.
Surely if there are 4 squads Caldari + 3 squads worth randoms and 7 Gallente squads numbers are equal, the Gallente players are just, you know, squadding up?
Level 6 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1213
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Lets see how games are after 1.7:
FW war:
If you play for Amarr or caldari you better be Q syncing or you will be Ultimatly stomped. Its not about the QUALITY of the players , its more about the QUANTITY of players the Gallente and Matari side have,making it easy for the m to Zerg the oposing factions and control the districts easier. Example: GÖªCaldari has 4 Full quads playing tonight and Gallente has 7. EVEN if by some miracle Scotty decided to put 4 squads vs 4 squads. There will still be 3 Gallente squads stomping on Caldari Randoms, making it impossible for them to recover districts. This mechanic HAS TO BE CHANGED. As it is is not fair for factions to be winning merely because of numbers and not necessarily skill.
Surely if there are 4 squads Caldari + 3 squads worth randoms and 7 Gallente squads numbers are equal, the Gallente players are just, you know, squadding up?
Dude you have to consider, its a miltia force, we are mercanaries! It will always be about numbers!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3130
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Surely if there are 4 squads Caldari + 3 squads worth randoms and 7 Gallente squads numbers are equal, the Gallente players are just, you know, squadding up?
A Squad =/= 6 Randoms
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3133
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
WOW seriously? I make a reasonable post and nobody even stops to read it?
Proof what people want is drama X)
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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CEOPyrex CloneA
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
525
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Totally disagree with this limit crap, once again tankers are trying to claim their right as some sort of elitist special snowflake and limit tanks so they can get their uber tank in and rage across the map
Go get into a miltia tank and roll in a gang of 3 other tanks, it is one of the most amusing and fun parts of the game to date.
Infantry vs infantry is not the only part of this game, so many people forget that. |
Tectonic Fusion
717
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:WOW seriously? I make a reasonable post and nobody even stops to read it?
Proof what people want is drama X) True Dat.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3139
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Totally disagree with this limit crap, once again tankers are trying to claim their right as some sort of elitist special snowflake and limit tanks so they can get their uber tank in and rage across the map
Go get into a miltia tank and roll in a gang of 3 other tanks, it is one of the most amusing and fun parts of the game to date.
Infantry vs infantry is not the only part of this game, so many people forget that.
Neither is Tanks vs tank. And thats whats all about now. And tankers ignore it.
In a 16 vs 16 game we cant have 6+ tanks per team. We just cant. Its breaking the balance and for everyone not running around in a tanks is pretty obvious/visible.
a Game where you are FORCED to play as a tanker because there is not other way is not a balanced game,and only because YOU say its amusing and fun does not make it true. Believe it or not, some people are here for the Gun fights,not the vehicle spam....
2 tanks per team is FAIR and balanced.3 is already going to far ; making ambush games unplayable and Av-ing almost impossible.
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1882
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
I agree for the first time +1 Solid Post
Level 1 Forum Warrior
I'm a normal person, if I seem like a douche it's because I hate 90% of people on these forums
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3139
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote: I agree for the first time +1 Solid Post
Thank you,i tried to be as neutral as possible.
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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Lorhak Gannarsein
698
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
I would be happy with a limit of tanks per team.
Just make it so that my ACTUALLY SP-INVESTED tank can always get a spot.
Wait. You can't?
OTOH, I agree that swarms are in serious need of a lock range buff. 225-250 should do the trick, and I also feel like the Breach FG should have its charge time reduced by half a second, to make it as viable as the Ishukone Assault.
>Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
698
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
I also think that MLT mods for tanks should be nerfed somewhat, and potentially the hulls too. At least for the time being, until we have ADV/PRO or equivalent hulls too.
(Sorry for double post - it's awkward on a touchscreen)
>Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3140
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:I also think that MLT mods for tanks should be nerfed somewhat, and potentially the hulls too. At least for the time being, until we have ADV/PRO or equivalent hulls too.
(Sorry for double post - it's awkward on a touchscreen)
''Vehicles are almost perfect except tanks are a little to fast and MLT being too cheap and effective compared to Gunnos/Maddys....''
MLT tanks need to be more Expensive in order to match their performance OR reduce their effectivness slightly . as it is MLT tanks are not very far from Gunnos and maddys.
But again this is NOT a priority , reducing their numbers is.
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3155
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Posted - 2013.12.15 01:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
POST EDITED/
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
45
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Posted - 2013.12.15 01:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
I would like a nova knife range buff
imagine the s#!t you can kill from a throne.... fu@#!n Rome.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3157
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Posted - 2013.12.15 02:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:I would like a nova knife range buff
sounds reasonable.
With range on weapons as it is they should have better range at CQ but not enough to outclass the shotgun as a CLOSE ranged weapon.Remember , the Nova knife is MELEE.
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT
205
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can you really say that you have taken a non bias role in a analytical summary ???
All AR's kill the same and with no noticeable difference . Same speed and it seems with the same damage output even though the stats say different . Damage mods should not play that much of a difference in comparison to the physic's of the actual gun .
Shot speeds are different in comparison but the damage output is the same and if you measure time to kill you will find that it takes the same amount of time for each weapon to kill with the exception of the scrambler rifle which kills a few seconds quicker .
Each individual gun needs it's damage output realigned with the actual physic's of the gun's action . Saying and producing stats means nothing when in comparison with the actual action that the gun produces . These stats are not true because if they were then the gun's would actually perform noticeably different and the ONLY gun that can actually say that are the Breach Variants ( even the kill times of those are close as well ) .
Do you notice the difference in the firing action and the actual action , how long it takes for someone to die in comparison to the other AR's ??? The RR can somewhat say the same thing as well as the CR but the kill times still seem too close to notice a reasonable difference but the firing action is different so that would actually throw one off from believing that both gun's perform the same .
I like the little subtleties where the action seems different but if you are aware and notice , it takes the same amount of time to finish someone and if there is a difference it is a slight on that isn't even noticeable besides the Breach Variants . Check the times and don't pay attention to the rate of firing but pay attention to how long it takes to kill . Does that have to do with the TTK ??? Then like most say , that TTK is a problem so that's another reason that this game is not balanced .
What I am saying is that from the rate of firing and the action of the guns one should " notice " a difference in how long it takes someone to die in comparison to each individual AR . The times are too close to tell a noticeable difference .
The Shotgun DOES NOT need a range buff . Are you serious ??? That gun has range and I have been hit while moving away in fatal blows without pursuit so the range of that weapon is fine . Shooting up and down stairs and from elevated areas , still provide relative damage .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3163
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Can you really say that you have taken a non bias role in a analytical summary ???
All AR's kill the same and with no noticeable difference . Same speed and it seems with the same damage output even though the stats say different . Damage mods should not play that much of a difference in comparison to the physic's of the actual gun .
Shot speeds are different in comparison but the damage output is the same and if you measure time to kill you will find that it takes the same amount of time for each weapon to kill with the exception of the scrambler rifle which kills a few seconds quicker .
Each individual gun needs it's damage output realigned with the actual physic's of the gun's action . Saying and producing stats means nothing when in comparison with the actual action that the gun produces . These stats are not true because if they were then the gun's would actually perform noticeably different and the ONLY gun that can actually say that are the Breach Variants ( even the kill times of those are close as well ) .
Do you notice the difference in the firing action and the actual action , how long it takes for someone to die in comparison to the other AR's ??? The RR can somewhat say the same thing as well as the CR but the kill times still seem too close to notice a reasonable difference but the firing action is different so that would actually throw one off from believing that both gun's perform the same .
I like the little subtleties where the action seems different but if you are aware and notice , it takes the same amount of time to finish someone and if there is a difference it is a slight on that isn't even noticeable besides the Breach Variants . Check the times and don't pay attention to the rate of firing but pay attention to how long it takes to kill . Does that have to do with the TTK ??? Then like most say , that TTK is a problem so that's another reason that this game is not balanced .
What I am saying is that from the rate of firing and the action of the guns one should " notice " a difference in how long it takes someone to die in comparison to each individual AR . The times are too close to tell a noticeable difference .
The Shotgun DOES NOT need a range buff . Are you serious ??? That gun has range and I have been hit while moving away in fatal blows without pursuit so the range of that weapon is fine . Shooting up and down stairs and from elevated areas , still provide relative damage .
TTK is low for every weapon except breach. That makes these weapons BALANCED with each other .. no? Well yeah, they just need to buff the breach. Me myself, i dont mind low TTK because i can drop enemies equally fast as i get dropped.
BTW , i said the shotgun needs a damage buff,not a range buff bro.
TANKS/AV/FW/RIFLES in 1.7? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3166
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
I insist, if we have a 2 tank per team limitation it helps everyone:
GÖª Infantry vs infantry will eb a viable scenario again GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy GÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severly there by making their SP investment more important. as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made! BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them...
TANKS/AV/FW/RIFLES in 1.7? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT
205
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why would the AR's need to be balanced with each other when they are different and perform differently and their firing actions are different as well ??? How can you balance different items with different actions and intensions ???? Killing is the same but they do it differently and in the same space of time and that's what your not getting . The rate that they kill should be noticeably different but they are not give or take a few seconds and that should be noticeably more of a difference .
Just like the suits are different and have different roles , so how would they be balanced as a whole . Nothing in this game would be balanced and that's why it's taking so long to accomplish . It's a myth and that's why it's not going to happen .
You can't balance different things that are intended to perform differently but you CAN highlight the differences and highlight the strengths and weaknesses but that isn't even done properly . Different races with different suits and gear that performs the same , weapons that the stats say are different but perform the same .
There is SO much mediocrity in this game , it should be named Mediocre 514 , with it's bland black and gray colors just proves how average it's made and they will not live up to the potential as long as the community as a whole ( much like yourself ) excepts what is given to them . The proof is being played as we speak . If this is balance then being balanced is BORING !!!!
Now you did talk about balance , didn't you ???
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3175
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Why would the AR's need to be balanced with each other when they are different and perform differently and their firing actions are different as well ??? How can you balance different items with different actions and intensions ???? Killing is the same but they do it differently and in the same space of time and that's what your not getting . The rate that they kill should be noticeably different but they are not give or take a few seconds and that should be noticeably more of a difference .
Just like the suits are different and have different roles , so how would they be balanced as a whole . Nothing in this game would be balanced and that's why it's taking so long to accomplish . It's a myth and that's why it's not going to happen .
You can't balance different things that are intended to perform differently but you CAN highlight the differences and highlight the strengths and weaknesses but that isn't even done properly . Different races with different suits and gear that performs the same , weapons that the stats say are different but perform the same .
There is SO much mediocrity in this game , it should be named Mediocre 514 , with it's bland black and gray colors just proves how average it's made and they will not live up to the potential as long as the community as a whole ( much like yourself ) excepts what is given to them . The proof is being played as we speak . If this is balance then being balanced is BORING !!!!
Now you did talk about balance , didn't you ???
''How can you balance different items with different actions and intentions ????''
Here is your mistake my friend. All Rifles are not so different nor are intended for different purposes. The purpose is to be each race's MAIN weapon and they try to cover as many areas as possible.Having the BEST damage possible,with the best range possible , etc... Rifles ARE balanced with each other: They all kill fast They all have decent Range (from Zero up to 45+ mts full damage) They all have decent CQ capabilities, the AR having the best since its the one with less range
They are all Designed for the same purpose. Being the MAIN rifle of each race and have overall good performance.
Different is a Rifle from an SMG, or a shotgun.....
TANKS/AV/FW/RIFLES in 1.7? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread
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