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Terarrim
Valor Coalition
Proficiency V.
57
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Posted - 2013.12.14 21:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lets have a look at the advantages of the Tanks as it stands
Malitia Weaponry that do more damage than proto av with damage mods and high prof. levels
Hulls that are cheap as if not cheaper than proto AV weapons
CCD Dev claimed that they made militia vehicles viable (fast and strong) so that new people can have fun whilest forgetting that malitia AV weapons are not fun at all as they are only good vs installations and lavs and dont do what they were designed to do i.e. counter vehicles.
Tanks are as so fast that they make viable troop transport for hacking letters and have taken over the role of LAVS as vehicle scouts as they have the same advantages of speed in addition get a superb main weapon and are far less vunrable and much better support weapon platform than a LAV. (People were complaining about Logi LAVS and how strong they were yet tanks have all the same advantages of speed and cool down indistructable periods while having far greater offensive capabilties).
While two proto AV people guard the letter I have seen a tank engage and sit under withering enemy fire to no avail.
I have also seen said tank retreat out of range when cool down is off being able to dodge swarms and forgees due to escape speeds.
Said tank recalls then brings in another tank to assault and suppress a letter.
Tankers are parking up behind objectives droping links for infantry then getting back into tanks near letters. They can do this due to the fact that they know that AV people have little time to engage a parked tank and the accelration and speed they can pull out minimizes this risk, while this is good tactical play the tank is now providing logistcal support to infantry as well as being a wrecking machine out in the battelfield.
Nearly all disadvantages such as ammo, cool downs are down etc. can be overcome with speed of retreat and recall and redeploy if necssary.
Ok so my biggest issue is not GOD mode (a la doom) where once the cool down is up the skilled tankers are immune to incoming AV and even sometimes vehicle fire for significant periods of time.
My issue is that there are few consequences and little tactical decisions having been made by the tank due to these cool downs you now there is little chance within that window that your going to get destroyed. Combine this with speed which means you allways have the inative when and where to engaged this combination is very very powrfull.
My solution is this then
Most tankers who are enjoying their tank feel that a person who has fully specced out into tanks should not be destroyed by one person with a infantry who has specalised in AV.
There is more than one way to make a weapon effective, one is damage the other is crowd control.
I believe that with some tweaks to AV (like increasing rang eof swarms to at least 250 meters, and putting the charge time on forge guns back to 1.6 levels) would help
In addition though I prapose that both forge guns and swarm launchers have the ability to cause a webbing effect on vehicles.
This does not counter the resistances, or the cool downs neither does it mean that one person can solo a proto tank. However if a swarm launcher hitting a cool down tank would cause a 25 percent or 30 percent slow down in speed on this tank this would impact significantly the effectivnes of AV by slowing the tanks in what they can do on the battelfield without destroying them. It also means that A forge gun attack the same tank can stack or at least sustain a slow don effect on the tank meaning that there are consequences of the tank engaging in combat with AV people.
This still means that multiple infantry AV will have to work together to destroy a tank but even one solo proto av person can have a significant impact on the tanks abilty to run rampage due to this web effect attached to the weapons. This will also mean that once cooldowns are gone that AV infantry have a much better chance of destroying the tank that they coudnt even touch when the cool downs are up.
Lastly it also means that there is a force multiplier in people like myself who run AV all the time in pubs that tankers have to respect. It means that tanks can be more easily attacked by AV grenediers and or use of sticky re's. In addition a combination of Tanker and AV infantry working as a team will again be a force multiplier as your tank will have the agility speed advantage over your opponant whilest the AV infantry may not be having much effect damage wise.
I believe that this in some ways helps all sides the frustrations of the AV people like me who feel he cant protect his squad mates from marauding tanks (I run with my squad with AV not on top of a mountain). With the chance to be able to slow a tank to signifant levels meaning my team mates can retreat or assault the thank with AV weaponry. On the tanker side I am still not the threat that I was in 1.6 in destroying tanks but tanks will have to be more cautious when plowing into squads of infantry, boosting up the sides of mountains or rampagining in cqc through cities.
I would be intrested on peoples feedback on this (BTW I would be willing on skilling up in a webifire skill on my proto weapon to get this type of effect I dont expect to get it for free).
As it stands something must be done to make for people like me who have spent millions of SP into AV and have made it their role so that we feel we can contrabute in a significant manner. Crowd control (over tanks) is a possible solution if people are unahappy with the damage that infantry can do.
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Terarrim
Valor Coalition
Proficiency V.
57
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
No one has any feedback on suggestion of adding "crowd control" as an option of making AV more viable? |
Ivy Zalinto
Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd
165
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 23:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Terarrim wrote:No one has any feedback on suggestion of adding "crowd control" as an option of making AV more viable?
Make swarm launchers cluster fire with wild dispersal, remove the lock and add a bit of damage to the missles. This would make a good cc weapon but not necessarily an overpowered one. Make the splash damage .1m or remove splash from them entirely to prevent room killing weapons for infantry. Drop splash damage to maybe 100hp damage total so its not a missle scattergun vs scouts and it might be good even. Thoughts mate?
Dedicated scout.
New player tutor; scout instructor
Scrambler Pistol dedication
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Terarrim
Valor Coalition
Proficiency V.
57
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 07:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ivy Zalinto wrote:Terarrim wrote:No one has any feedback on suggestion of adding "crowd control" as an option of making AV more viable? Make swarm launchers cluster fire with wild dispersal, remove the lock and add a bit of damage to the missles. This would make a good cc weapon but not necessarily an overpowered one. Make the splash damage .1m or remove splash from them entirely to prevent room killing weapons for infantry. Drop splash damage to maybe 100hp damage total so its not a missle scattergun vs scouts and it might be good even. Thoughts mate?
I woudn't be happy with that to be honest. I am talking about the ability to webfire or slow tanks down to make them less effective and give people a reason to contribute to AV as swarms and forges do not do enough to contribute on any level at the moment. |
Ivy Zalinto
Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd
168
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 17:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Terarrim wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote:Terarrim wrote:No one has any feedback on suggestion of adding "crowd control" as an option of making AV more viable? Make swarm launchers cluster fire with wild dispersal, remove the lock and add a bit of damage to the missles. This would make a good cc weapon but not necessarily an overpowered one. Make the splash damage .1m or remove splash from them entirely to prevent room killing weapons for infantry. Drop splash damage to maybe 100hp damage total so its not a missle scattergun vs scouts and it might be good even. Thoughts mate? I woudn't be happy with that to be honest. I am talking about the ability to webfire or slow tanks down to make them less effective and give people a reason to contribute to AV as swarms and forges do not do enough to contribute on any level at the moment.
See in a way I agree that a stasis web would be cool but in another way i think its a terrible idea. Just due to how widely it would be used and likely how often it would be used on the field. Even the more rare equipment tends to be spammed lately. Idk, I kinda like the tanks as they are. Their a legitimate threat to any infantry and should stay that way. I had a dream last night for a new build and i might try it. Both a shield AND an armor hardener on a gunnlogi...might work...
Dedicated scout.
New player tutor; scout instructor
Scrambler Pistol dedication
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