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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
652
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, I've been doing some calculation, for item's prices on the LP store, these prices were calculated with an average value of earning 200,000 ISK per public match and Lv 10 standings:
Weapons examples:
Duvolle tactical assault rifle =-á63,659.4 ISK down from 77,280 ISK
Gek-38 =-á19,636.5 ISK up from 10,770 ISK
Assault rifle =-á8,926.1 ISK up from 1,500 ISK
Ok I'm going to assume that these numbers are roughly the same for all weapons across the board, since the are almost all priced pretty much the same. As you can see, these numbers are rather strange, as the highest tier weapon actually gets a discount and the lowest tier weapon is outrageously over priced. Now with that in min (tier one and tier two weapons) we must also consider that the items have reduced skill costs to use. But why the disparity between the two tiers? These numbers seem to be haphazardly/arbitrarily calculated. In short tier one and two weapons are of no other value that to unskilled players and tier one is either a complete ripoff or tier to is sorely underpriced, depending on your point of view. I imaging that these weapons were intended to be over priced in order to not out shine the Aur variants of the same weapons, but, if that is so, the why the discount at the top teir?
Let's take a look at dropsuits:
Dropsuit example:
Logi G-1:-á12,496.6 ISK up from 3000 ISK
Logi G/1 Series: 28,563.7 ISK up from 8040 ISK
Logi Gk.0:-á55,341.7 ISK down from 57,690 ISK
So, these set of prices is a little more balanced (if we consider that the reason they are overpriced is for Aur sales), but there is stills the discount at the top tier, even though it is small.
now, to modules, and this is where there seem to be a really big problem (I'm not going to do every mode, so...):
Module examples:
Complex armor plate:-á26,772.5 ISK up from 3945 ISK
Complex kin cat:-á27,088.6 ISK up from 2955 ISK.
Complex shield extender:-á26,776.6 ISK up from 4275 ISK
26,777.1 ISK up from 5595 ISK
As you can see here, these are some pretty steep prices and is only get more steep as you go down in tiers, for example:
Basic armor plate:-á7,140.9 ISK up from 900 ISK
these are huge increases, but it's not just that who is this really for? Also this is not including the cost to obtain loyalty points in order to purchase these items. So if you spend 200,000 ISK in suit cost/deaths in a match to obtain 659 LP, you have just effectively doubled all the prices listed above. Could you imagine spending 50,000 ISK on a complex damage mod? I sure as hell can't.
So who are these items for? The decrease in skill to use of the majority of these items would suggest that they are meant for new players, but how there is no noob alive who could sustain these cost in order to make use of these items. They are for damn sure not for the vets because who in their right mind would pay such outrageous prices, with the exception of the proto weapons and suits? And the the savings does not even factor in cost to obtain LP, so it is really not a discount at all.
So, then there are the specialist weapons, which I am not going to price for you, because for one I'm tired of doing math an for another I plan to sell them on the open market when it comes. However I will tell you that they are VERY expensive.
In closing, the items prices for the items on the LP store have no value for anybody. The only thing the LP store is good for is over priced specialist weapons. CCP I implore, you take another look at the math here and decide where your customer market is here, because as of right now, I can't see one at all.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2623
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't see a problem with these.
The items are relatively unique, they clearly aren't intended to be run as your mainline fittings.
Personally I've found the access to suits & vehicles invaluable. The Commando especially. I wanted to run these suits with some actual modules, but wasn't willing to spend the SP. Now I can.
No.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
652
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
The op is has been edited. (clarical errors)
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1789
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
What about the specialist weapons? Surely those will sell for high amounts of isk once the market is introduced.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Viktor Hadah Jr
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1469
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is a targeted market, the loyal RP's for factions and the super rich who have no need for ISK
I don't think FW is suppose to be fully sustainable in the first place it is to help people who dont have skills get items with lower requirements like aurum gear.
Amarr
My OB Kills
Selling Templar BPO
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
652
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't see a problem with these.
The items are relatively unique, they clearly aren't intended to be run as your mainline fittings.
Personally I've found the access to suits & vehicles invaluable. The Commando especially. I wanted to run these suits with some actual modules, but wasn't willing to spend the SP. Now I can.
It not about access. It is about giving people a reason to do FW at all. And if it is not economically viable to do so then people will either stop running them altogether, run them at minimal possible risk (like I am - BPO only), or will go broke running them. I was hoping for more out of FW than a BPO only gring fest.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
653
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 20:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:There is a targeted market, the loyal RP's for factions and the super rich who have no need for ISK
I don't think FW is suppose to be fully sustainable in the first place it is to help people who dont have skills get items with lower requirements like aurum gear.
Well thn it is failing because these prices are not even close to sustain able for noobs.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2623
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't see a problem with these.
The items are relatively unique, they clearly aren't intended to be run as your mainline fittings.
Personally I've found the access to suits & vehicles invaluable. The Commando especially. I wanted to run these suits with some actual modules, but wasn't willing to spend the SP. Now I can. It not about access. It is about giving people a reason to do FW at all. And if it is not economically viable to do so then people will either stop running them altogether, run them at minimal possible risk (like I am - BPO only), or will go broke running them. I was hoping for more out of FW than a BPO only gring fest.
Who are you to say what it is & isn't about? Nobody's forcing you to play FW exclusively. Your own maths demonstrates that it isn't viable on its own. Play to its strengths.
No.
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Foo Fighting
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
29
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
The fitting cost are wierd too the duvolle ar has the same fitting cost as the gek - or is the a mistake? |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
653
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't see a problem with these.
The items are relatively unique, they clearly aren't intended to be run as your mainline fittings.
Personally I've found the access to suits & vehicles invaluable. The Commando especially. I wanted to run these suits with some actual modules, but wasn't willing to spend the SP. Now I can. It not about access. It is about giving people a reason to do FW at all. And if it is not economically viable to do so then people will either stop running them altogether, run them at minimal possible risk (like I am - BPO only), or will go broke running them. I was hoping for more out of FW than a BPO only gring fest. Who are you to say what it is & isn't about? Nobody's forcing you to play FW exclusively. Your own maths demonstrates that it isn't viable on its own. Play to its strengths.
It is viable if you spend no little to no money while playing them, like I am.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
653
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 20:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:The fitting cost are wierd too the duvolle ar has the same fitting cost as the gek - or is the a mistake?
Functioning as intended.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
653
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here's a suggestion CCP, have FW matches pay out some viable amount of ISK, just until the player market gets installed. Say, 150,000 ISK for top spot in a good match.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
6185
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:There is a targeted market, the loyal RP's for factions and the super rich who have no need for ISK
I don't think FW is suppose to be fully sustainable in the first place it is to help people who dont have skills get items with lower requirements like aurum gear.
Why should a more challenging game mode with friendly fire and harsh penalties for losing reward so little compared to running pubmatches?
Level 6 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
656
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 01:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:There is a targeted market, the loyal RP's for factions and the super rich who have no need for ISK
I don't think FW is suppose to be fully sustainable in the first place it is to help people who dont have skills get items with lower requirements like aurum gear. Why should a more challenging game mode with friendly fire and harsh penalties for losing reward so little compared to running pubmatches?
Indeed.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2378
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Posted - 2013.12.15 01:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Look it comes down to two things:
1) CCP thinks we need an ISK sink
2) They don't want people solely playing FW
You have to convince them that they are misguided on those two issues. This should be the platform used to drive the request for changes.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
656
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 02:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Look it comes down to two things:
1) CCP thinks we need an ISK sink
2) They don't want people solely playing FW
You have to convince them that they are misguided on those two issues. This should be the platform used to drive the request for changes.
Not really my forte. Not that I couldn't it is just less interesting to me. I am good with maths and sh!t, all I see in this game is $. I am a merc after all. I am supposed to be getting payed, and FW is a joke in this regard. But I'll make it work anyway. I'll be ripping all of you off on the cost of specialist weapons here in a few months.
Can't somebody else make this argument.
{:)}{3GÇó>
HTFU: adapt or die
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fawkuima juggalo
Eternal Beings
229
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Posted - 2013.12.15 02:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Look it comes down to two things:
1) CCP thinks we need an ISK sink
2) They don't want people solely playing FW
You have to convince them that they are misguided on those two issues. This should be the platform used to drive the request for changes. Not really my forte. Not that I couldn't it is just less interesting to me. I am good with maths and sh!t, all I see in this game is $. I am a merc after all. I am supposed to be getting payed, and FW is a joke in this regard. But I'll make it work anyway. I'll be ripping all of you off on the cost of specialist weapons here in a few months. Can't somebody else make this argument.
this is a good thing..... people end up spending more isk and cant afford proto stomping.... except with lots of lp...
Dropship auto leveling and THE SOLUTION
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