DUST Search - What is the role of the Laser Rifle in 1.7?

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche.

Problems with the laser rifle

Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused.

Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges.

Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases.

Solutions

Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed.

Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The heat buildup on the target should decrease slowly when the laser stops hitting it, but should not automatically reset. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire.

Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts.

Save the laser rifle.

Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

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Green Living Scions of Athra 1043	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:24:00 - [1] - Quote I'm out ranged and out gunned at the moment. I have yet to see a single Laser Rifle user other than me since 1.7 deployed. Anyone else using the Laser Rifle right now?
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 122	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:29:00 - [2] - Quote The role of the LR as of 1.7 is to become another SP sink for CCP to make money off of. They make the Laser good just enough to make you think that if you dump more SP into, it'll get better. NOPE!!! Prof 5 & 3 complex dmg mods and I still barely strip shields off of medium suits. Oh but scouts. I can kill those.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7448	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:31:00 - [3] - Quote It has no role anymore, but i have a plan to Rebuild it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=127171&find=unread KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche. Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The heat buildup on the target should decrease slowly when the laser stops hitting it, but should not automatically reset. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Save the laser rifle. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1894	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:31:00 - [4] - Quote So the +/- for laser rifle +higher DPS on amarr assault than any other 75m+ optimals weapon +no kick +slightly longer optimal (8%) than RR +natural suit can fit damage mods with little sacrifice to tank. -terrible mid/close range -heavy fitting cost -overheating -fast effective range dropoff RR +moderate mid/close range application +decent fitting cost +fast reload with no overheat worries +gentle dropoff -charge up time -low damage to shield
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8694	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:31:00 - [5] - Quote I fail to see the purpose of the HMG in all but the tightest of close quarters, virtually everything outranges you by quite a bit, and you're too slow to dictate your engagements. It's obnoxious. I feel for the lasers, ever since they were stricken from Godhood they haven't been having a very good time Vids / O7
Malek McRoland DUST University Ivy League 98	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:35:00 - [6] - Quote I havent had any gripes with the laser rifle other than the fact that it should be able to hit at longer distances. Demolitions Instructor Event and Calendar Manager-Department of Education (D-UNI)
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2599	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:40:00 - [7] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: So the +/- for laser rifle +higher DPS on amarr assault than any other 75m+ optimals weapon +no kick +slightly longer optimal (8%) than RR +natural suit can fit damage mods with little sacrifice to tank. -terrible mid/close range -heavy fitting cost -overheating -fast effective range dropoff RR +moderate mid/close range application +decent fitting cost +fast reload with no overheat worries +gentle dropoff -charge up time -low damage to shield "Moderate mid/close range"? Please leave the forums and think about what you just said. No.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1894	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:42:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I fail to see the purpose of the HMG in all but the tightest of close quarters, virtually everything outranges you by quite a bit, and you're too slow to dictate your engagements. It's obnoxious. I feel for the lasers, ever since they were stricken from Godhood they haven't been having a very good time I do wonder about this stat in the SDE, it's 'hit momentum'. It has a hit momentum of 95 while the AR has 50. Its sort of unkown what it does, but whatever it does, its twice as effective at it than the AR.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1894	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:43:00 - [9] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: So the +/- for laser rifle +higher DPS on amarr assault than any other 75m+ optimals weapon +no kick +slightly longer optimal (8%) than RR +natural suit can fit damage mods with little sacrifice to tank. -terrible mid/close range -heavy fitting cost -overheating -fast effective range dropoff RR +moderate mid/close range application +decent fitting cost +fast reload with no overheat worries +gentle dropoff -charge up time -low damage to shield "Moderate mid/close range"? Please leave the forums and think about what you just said. What? You think the rail rifle is the best mid/close range weapon?
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1168	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:44:00 - [10] - Quote Placeholder for the new heavy laser weapon "Just another piece of duct tape" Drugs for mercs

iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1203	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:45:00 - [11] - Quote I saw a laser rifle used effectively today, the bloke got few kills but he held back the opposite team. LR are good area denial weapons, the problem is, if your doing your job right you probably arn't going to get that many kills. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
J'Hiera Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 46	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:49:00 - [12] - Quote Its good for precice destruction of distant enemy equipment. Other than that; harassment. The time it takes for it to do damage, is longer than it takes for the enemy rr to take you out. I run my laser suit with 2 complex damage mods. I like to think I notice the difference, but hardly. Sometimes I run a complex shield and a damage mod instead. Its a very delicate weapon to balance, though. Without proper thought out adjustments, you either overpower it, or completely destroy it.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1259	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:50:00 - [13] - Quote Green Living wrote: I'm out ranged and out gunned at the moment. I have yet to see a single Laser Rifle user other than me since 1.7 deployed. Anyone else using the Laser Rifle right now? Just to comment: In another thread, when one player said laser rifles were useless now, you were brought up as an example of how they're just fine. I think we can take this thread's existence to mean that the LR is good-and-well proper **** at the moment. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ** pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Green Living Scions of Athra 1044	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:55:00 - [14] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Green Living wrote: I'm out ranged and out gunned at the moment. I have yet to see a single Laser Rifle user other than me since 1.7 deployed. Anyone else using the Laser Rifle right now? Just to comment: In another thread, when one player said laser rifles were useless now, you were brought up as an example of how they're just fine. I think we can take this thread's existence to mean that the LR is good-and-well proper ****** at the moment. If you're looking for a challenge, the LR is definitely the way to go right now. haha.
Green Living Scions of Athra 1044	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:56:00 - [15] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: Its good for precice destruction of distant enemy equipment. Other than that; harassment. The time it takes for it to do damage, is longer than it takes for the enemy rr to take you out. I run my laser suit with 2 complex damage mods. I like to think I notice the difference, but hardly. Sometimes I run a complex shield and a damage mod instead. Its a very delicate weapon to balance, though. Without proper thought out adjustments, you either overpower it, or completely destroy it. Yeah, 2 complex damage mods are a necessity, with the already low TTK it makes me a vulnerable glass cannon that doesn't have a range advantage anymore.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1894	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:15:00 - [16] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: Its good for precice destruction of distant enemy equipment. Other than that; harassment. The time it takes for it to do damage, is longer than it takes for the enemy rr to take you out. I run my laser suit with 2 complex damage mods. I like to think I notice the difference, but hardly. Sometimes I run a complex shield and a damage mod instead. Its a very delicate weapon to balance, though. Without proper thought out adjustments, you either overpower it, or completely destroy it. I'm trying to figure some stuff out about the way the stats on the lasers work atm. On the damage all lasers have the property 'max beam damage' of 450. If damage mods don't change that then I think the only thing they would help with is getting to the max damage faster. The problem is that the 'beam charge time' is 5 seconds. My assumption is that this is the time it takes the beam to normally reach 'max damage' My theory is that there is a charge time of 1 second during which the 17HP/ shot applies for the .08 shots/second. So you'll have fired 13 shots that first second for a measily 221 damage. After that the 50 HP min beam damage starts and then scales directly per shot for 62 shots. During this time each additional .08s shot adds 6.45 HP damage to the last shot's total. I don't really know if this is exactly how it would work or not. It seems pretty extreme. It would theoretically mean that the total beam damage would something like 15k damage before overheating and 5k DPS in the last second. Which I could test this on a supply depot and do some math. The hard thing is getting the hits in the last second to land because at that point you've probably been spotted.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3063	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:34:00 - [17] - Quote I've been asking this about the MD for months. Support weapons need a looking at. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1895	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:41:00 - [18] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I've been asking this about the MD for months. Support weapons need a looking at. Yeah the information in the database for the MD is pointless.
TheSprayNPray2 Fatal Absolution 248	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:42:00 - [19] - Quote Green Living wrote: I'm out ranged and out gunned at the moment. I have yet to see a single Laser Rifle user other than me since 1.7 deployed. Anyone else using the Laser Rifle right now? the idea behind the laser is to simply point out the enemies such as a college profssor does on the board during a lecture
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1539	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:43:00 - [20] - Quote Green Living wrote: I'm out ranged and out gunned at the moment. I have yet to see a single Laser Rifle user other than me since 1.7 deployed. Anyone else using the Laser Rifle right now? It't for a light show and signaling your position to the enemy team "HP needs no buff, certain weapons need nerf. Or else all other become obsolete." GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå Tank driver



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