DUST Search - [Awesome] Make vehicles OMS for balance!

Severus Smith wrote:

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

While I can't deny this would allow vehicles to be powerful without them being overused, I can say that it isn't really fair to vehicle users. They skill into vehicles, buy vehicles, and fit vehicles, but without a squad they can't use vehicles?

Yeah, that is a problem I missed.

The squad finder could help, DUST is a teamwork based game so it could be "Want to run ADS's or HAV's? Get a squad!". But I agree that a more elegant solution could probably be found.

The problem is, the current system is extremely hard to balance as vehicle users basically use them as dropsuits (since that is what they focus their SP in). But 1 guy in a HAV is much more powerful (or should be) than 1 guy in a dropsuit. And in a 16 vs 16 match setting this is horrible. It either needs to be balanced by the HAV requiring 2+ players to operate or some kind of limit on how many / how often vehicles can be used. And since I doubt vehicle users want to be stuck as drivers while blueberries operate their guns the 2+ player thing isn't an ideal solution.

But limiting vehicles with timers like I proposed allows vehicle users to keep their powerful assets without having to share them with 2+ other people.

Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded.

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Severus Smith Caldari State 470	Posted - 2013.12.11 19:25:00 - [1] - Quote [Read First] Add more Off Map Support (OMS) options! In addition to the above idea, make vehicles a form of Off Map Support (OMS) regulated by timers. Light Attack Vehicle (LAV) (No GCD, 4 uses per squad) Light Dropship (3 minute GCD, 2 uses per squad) Assault Dropship (5 minute GCD, 1 use per squad) Heavy Attack Vehicle (5 minute GCD, 1 use per squad) While the Global Cooldown (GCD) is active that OMS option is unavailable for the entire team. A squad has limited uses of each OMS option. Before Vehicle users cry NERF think about it. This means that you get to keep your powerful vehicles, that enemy vehicles are more uncommon, and that RE laced suicide LAVs are limited to, at most, 4x uses per squad. It will also keep AV weapon damage down. Observations - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vehicles are hard to balance in a 16 vs 16 setting. If you make them so powerful that it takes 2+ AV users to take them down then they unfairly tilt the game balance. 1 dedicated pilot can force the enemy to lose 2+ soldiers who must refit into AV builds. In a 16 vs 16 setting this is a large loss. Here, the vehicles win. If you make them too weak then a single AV user can keep a pilot and his far more expensive vehicle at bay pretty easily. 1 dedicated AV can force 2+ pilots to stay out of the conflict because they cannot engage for long. This sucks for vehicle users who want their hefty investments to be powerful. In this setting the AV users win. My proposal is that we keep powerful vehicles. But limit how many can be called in / on the field at once. This stops one side from spamming extremely powerful HAV's or ADS's and dominating their opponent. It also ensures that, since vehicles are powerful, when they are called in they offer a huge power increase for their side. By limiting how many times a vehicle can be called in, per squad, it also promotes that vehicle aren't used recklessly (cough, suicide LAVS, cough) and promotes more squad support for vehicles. Benefits - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This system ensures that vehicles can remain powerful without being spammed on the battlefield. They are a powerful support tool, and are called in as such. This should allow enemies time to deal with vehicles before more can be called in. This means that if a HAV or ADS is brought in the enemy will have to dedicate resources to take it down, or gamble that the enemy does not have more HAV or ADS pilots on their team. Basic summary: By limiting the time between vehicle deployments vehicles can remain powerful and require more dedicated AV without the imbalance of being spamable.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6025	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:08:00 - [2] - Quote INB4 tank tears. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 707	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:15:00 - [3] - Quote While I can't deny this would allow vehicles to be powerful without them being overused, I can say that it isn't really fair to vehicle users. They skill into vehicles, buy vehicles, and fit vehicles, but without a squad they can't use vehicles? Humanity is the personification of change.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 788	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:35:00 - [4] - Quote Not a bad idea. Ulysses point, however, is valid. In reality, I feel the best solution remains to make tanks powerful, but require two or more players to use them effectively. By tying up multiple players, it balances the match. This could be accomplished by giving the driver the small front turret, and making the main gun a feature of the second seat. A single tank user retains the capability to switch seats though, if he wants to position the tank, and then switch to gun, then switch to driver to reposition, etc. You still have power and strength, but you need multiple people to unlock a tank's full potential. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Severus Smith Caldari State 473	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:41:00 - [5] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: While I can't deny this would allow vehicles to be powerful without them being overused, I can say that it isn't really fair to vehicle users. They skill into vehicles, buy vehicles, and fit vehicles, but without a squad they can't use vehicles? Yeah, that is a problem I missed. The squad finder could help, DUST is a teamwork based game so it could be "Want to run ADS's or HAV's? Get a squad!". But I agree that a more elegant solution could probably be found. The problem is, the current system is extremely hard to balance as vehicle users basically use them as dropsuits (since that is what they focus their SP in). But 1 guy in a HAV is much more powerful (or should be) than 1 guy in a dropsuit. And in a 16 vs 16 match setting this is horrible. It either needs to be balanced by the HAV requiring 2+ players to operate or some kind of limit on how many / how often vehicles can be used. And since I doubt vehicle users want to be stuck as drivers while blueberries operate their guns the 2+ player thing isn't an ideal solution. But limiting vehicles with timers like I proposed allows vehicle users to keep their powerful assets without having to share them with 2+ other people.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 788	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:44:00 - [6] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: It either needs to be balanced by the HAV requiring 2+ players to operate or some kind of limit on how many / how often vehicles can be used. And since I doubt vehicle users want to be stuck as drivers while blueberries operate their guns the 2+ player thing isn't an ideal solution. if the driver gets the forward gun, usually a blaster, they actually have a great anti-personnel option there. But the forward firing arc of that turret also means AV can flank them. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Severus Smith Caldari State 473	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:46:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Severus Smith wrote: It either needs to be balanced by the HAV requiring 2+ players to operate or some kind of limit on how many / how often vehicles can be used. And since I doubt vehicle users want to be stuck as drivers while blueberries operate their guns the 2+ player thing isn't an ideal solution. if the driver gets the forward gun, usually a blaster, they actually have a great anti-personnel option there. But the forward firing arc of that turret also means AV can flank them. Not a bad idea either. Truthfully, it comes down to either requiring powerful vehicles to need multiple players to operate. Or limiting how often they can be used so that they are support and not constantly used like dropsuits. Or C, something else.
DusterBuster Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 337	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:35:00 - [8] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: While I can't deny this would allow vehicles to be powerful without them being overused, I can say that it isn't really fair to vehicle users. They skill into vehicles, buy vehicles, and fit vehicles, but without a squad they can't use vehicles? Yeah, that is a problem I missed. The squad finder could help, DUST is a teamwork based game so it could be "Want to run ADS's or HAV's? Get a squad!". But I agree that a more elegant solution could probably be found. The problem is, the current system is extremely hard to balance as vehicle users basically use them as dropsuits (since that is what they focus their SP in). But 1 guy in a HAV is much more powerful (or should be) than 1 guy in a dropsuit. And in a 16 vs 16 match setting this is horrible. It either needs to be balanced by the HAV requiring 2+ players to operate or some kind of limit on how many / how often vehicles can be used. And since I doubt vehicle users want to be stuck as drivers while blueberries operate their guns the 2+ player thing isn't an ideal solution. But limiting vehicles with timers like I proposed allows vehicle users to keep their powerful assets without having to share them with 2+ other people. I just wanted to say that I agree with this post, even though I don't have anything constructive to add at this point in time :). Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded.


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