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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
221
   |
Posted - 2013.12.11 19:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
CPL Bloodstone wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:bolsh lee wrote:CCP Remnant wrote: First and foremost, combat should be fun. Long TTK is not fun if itGÇÖs the result of loose controls, poor aim assists or dance-strafing/bunny-hopping combat I don't know what hes smoking but a short TTK isn't any fun as well, especially in a game like Dust where your SP/Gear determine your survivability and pocketbook at the end of the day.. EDIT: And IMO long-er- TTK can be extremely fun it can encourage more squad tactics/game play, medics can actually survive to do their job, Scouts can retreat and come back for a hit and run, heavies can patrol a point encouraging other heavies/anti-heavy weapons to push the point the list could go on and on... With the TTK the way it is now none of that is achievable, heavies die damn near as fast and advanced suits.. hence why everyone and their mother is running brick tanked proto logi... What's so fun about shooting and shooting and shooting at the same guy and NEVER KILLING THEM? Longer TTK would result in just that, less fun and EVEN MORE frustration for people complaining about how 'unkillable' someone is. The real issue isn't the TTK, it's the range you are engaging at. If you get closer to the enemy, then damn right you should also die fast. Shorter ranges = shorter TTK. That is what the ARs were developed for and they do it well. Now if you stay out and engage outside the ARs optimal range (like 75 to 80 meters) your TTK increases dramatically, as it should. With the introduction of the other two race's weapons, players are engaging at longer ranges. This means that my shields get "plinked" by them and I get more time to react/take-cover/return-fire. But if the same happened at a shorter range, then I would be dead before I had time to react. Everyone here that is attributing TTK to the game or to OP weapons etc need to start realizing the real source of the shorter TTK. It's you. Engaging right in the face of the enemy should get you killed fast. That's what all these weapons seem to do best and you are complaining about it? Again, I tried to explain the issue in more detail here, but apparently people don't always read the links. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1593171#post1593171 Thats a very linear way of thinking to be honest with you. Modules and SP should matter in survivability. Currenlty they do not. I dont want to sit and shoot the same guy for 3 seconds or more but i dont want to get dropped in a fully tanked suit under a second... A fully tanked merc vs a fully offensive merc should even out, currently they do not. Im having a discussion, not attacking anyone.
And you still didn't get the point. What RANGE were you at when you died in under a second? If it was less than 50 meters, then hell yes that is as it's supposed to be. If it was longer thatn 100 meters and done by something other than a sniper rifle or forge gun or something similar, then something might be wrong.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
221
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Posted - 2013.12.11 20:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
bolsh lee wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:bolsh lee wrote:CCP Remnant wrote: First and foremost, combat should be fun. Long TTK is not fun if itGÇÖs the result of loose controls, poor aim assists or dance-strafing/bunny-hopping combat I don't know what hes smoking but a short TTK isn't any fun as well, especially in a game like Dust where your SP/Gear determine your survivability and pocketbook at the end of the day.. EDIT: And IMO long-er- TTK can be extremely fun it can encourage more squad tactics/game play, medics can actually survive to do their job, Scouts can retreat and come back for a hit and run, heavies can patrol a point encouraging other heavies/anti-heavy weapons to push the point the list could go on and on... With the TTK the way it is now none of that is achievable, heavies die damn near as fast and advanced suits.. hence why everyone and their mother is running brick tanked proto logi... What's so fun about shooting and shooting and shooting at the same guy and NEVER KILLING THEM? Longer TTK would result in just that, less fun and EVEN MORE frustration for people complaining about how 'unkillable' someone is. The real issue isn't the TTK, it's the range you are engaging at. If you get closer to the enemy, then damn right you should also die fast. Shorter ranges = shorter TTK. That is what the ARs were developed for and they do it well. Now if you stay out and engage outside the ARs optimal range (like 75 to 80 meters) your TTK increases dramatically, as it should. With the introduction of the other two race's weapons, players are engaging at longer ranges. This means that my shields get "plinked" by them and I get more time to react/take-cover/return-fire. But if the same happened at a shorter range, then I would be dead before I had time to react. Everyone here that is attributing TTK to the game or to OP weapons etc need to start realizing the real source of the shorter TTK. It's you. Engaging right in the face of the enemy should get you killed fast. That's what all these weapons seem to do best and you are complaining about it? Again, I tried to explain the issue in more detail here, but apparently people don't always read the links. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1593171#post1593171 So every map regardless of design you should sit at a distance and only engage targets that you can see ? That explains why half the pub matches I'm in there is one squad on point and 10 other people sitting on a mountain side.. You're pointing fingers assuming everyone runs lone wolf.. ? I remember the days were you had to run in a squad in order to survive becuase you needed to focus fire and if you wanted to lone wolf you COULD by selecting a quicker shield regen fit or a tactical armor heavy suit.. Even if the long TTK was inherent because of poor performance or lack of aim assist the fact is it encouraged squad play and diversity not just nanohives and uplink deployment.. Not to mention if you were that tactical lone wolf running damage mods you could still play the field and cherry pick...
No, the indoor and city maps should encourage fast, short range death. It's more CQC and a much faster pace of game. I'm just saying that this game has both styles of play, but when the people that opt for the CQC whine and complain about dying all the time I have to answer, that was their choice in tactics.
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Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
160
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Posted - 2013.12.11 20:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:CPL Bloodstone wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:bolsh lee wrote:CCP Remnant wrote: First and foremost, combat should be fun. Long TTK is not fun if itGÇÖs the result of loose controls, poor aim assists or dance-strafing/bunny-hopping combat I don't know what hes smoking but a short TTK isn't any fun as well, especially in a game like Dust where your SP/Gear determine your survivability and pocketbook at the end of the day.. EDIT: And IMO long-er- TTK can be extremely fun it can encourage more squad tactics/game play, medics can actually survive to do their job, Scouts can retreat and come back for a hit and run, heavies can patrol a point encouraging other heavies/anti-heavy weapons to push the point the list could go on and on... With the TTK the way it is now none of that is achievable, heavies die damn near as fast and advanced suits.. hence why everyone and their mother is running brick tanked proto logi... What's so fun about shooting and shooting and shooting at the same guy and NEVER KILLING THEM? Longer TTK would result in just that, less fun and EVEN MORE frustration for people complaining about how 'unkillable' someone is. The real issue isn't the TTK, it's the range you are engaging at. If you get closer to the enemy, then damn right you should also die fast. Shorter ranges = shorter TTK. That is what the ARs were developed for and they do it well. Now if you stay out and engage outside the ARs optimal range (like 75 to 80 meters) your TTK increases dramatically, as it should. With the introduction of the other two race's weapons, players are engaging at longer ranges. This means that my shields get "plinked" by them and I get more time to react/take-cover/return-fire. But if the same happened at a shorter range, then I would be dead before I had time to react. Everyone here that is attributing TTK to the game or to OP weapons etc need to start realizing the real source of the shorter TTK. It's you. Engaging right in the face of the enemy should get you killed fast. That's what all these weapons seem to do best and you are complaining about it? Again, I tried to explain the issue in more detail here, but apparently people don't always read the links. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1593171#post1593171 Thats a very linear way of thinking to be honest with you. Modules and SP should matter in survivability. Currenlty they do not. I dont want to sit and shoot the same guy for 3 seconds or more but i dont want to get dropped in a fully tanked suit under a second... A fully tanked merc vs a fully offensive merc should even out, currently they do not. Im having a discussion, not attacking anyone. And you still didn't get the point. What RANGE were you at when you died in under a second? If it was less than 50 meters, then hell yes that is as it's supposed to be. If it was longer thatn 100 meters and done by something other than a sniper rifle or forge gun or something similar, then something might be wrong.
I think your missing the point, range is not a factor for only forge and sniper.Ever other weapon have to play within the range of the rifles.You have no choice but to be in the rifle range.So what your saying is you should use a forge or sniper if you dont want to die in under 4 secs ? |
Foo Fighting
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
25
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 20:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
The classic scenario that needs to be central to the solution:
You're hacking and objective and someone starts shooting you in the back - ttk must be long enough to turn 180 degrees and at the least see your killer - ideally with enough time to pull a headshot. SG, FG, SR would not count here.
It should also be possible to step out from cover and fire a shot or step back before you're dead, especially as the enemy knows when you are stepping out because you have a big red arrow over your head due to scanners. |
Tectonic Fusion
695
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 20:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:How about a few questions to judge expectations. I'm not being hostile. I'm honestly trying to understand all the TTK complaints and if possible to present ideas to CCP that meet both their intentions and satisfy the players.
What is your typical KDR since Uprising 1.4?
Are you losing money on your gear?
Does it irritate you to lose any gear?
Would you prefer longer battles even if you kept the same KDR?
Do you prefer head on assaults or do you try to take advantage of the battlefield before moving in for the kill?
Do you think you should be able to kill all opponents with one magazine or does slowly withering them down make for a more enjoyable fight?
I've found that running less expensive gear with lower expectation for living to be more enjoyable. If I'm running my best suits I'm a lot more cautious and end up performing worse. Then again, I don't run with squads and I don't have the support of five other guys running full prototype.
Same. I'm a solo player, but I only squad up with intelligent people or really good players.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
237
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 17:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:And you still didn't get the point. What RANGE were you at when you died in under a second? If it was less than 50 meters, then hell yes that is as it's supposed to be. If it was longer thatn 100 meters and done by something other than a sniper rifle or forge gun or something similar, then something might be wrong.
I think your missing the point, range is not a factor for only forge and sniper.Ever other weapon have to play within the range of the rifles.You have no choice but to be in the rifle range.So what your saying is you should use a forge or sniper if you dont want to die in under 4 secs ?
Nope, you are missing the point. For every weapon in this game there is an EFFECTIVE range and an ABSOLUTE range. Your weapon will deal it's maximum damage somewhere within it's EFFECTIVE range. It will deal significantly less damage between it's EFFECTIVE range and its ABSOLUTE range. Beyond the ABSOLUTE range it deals no damage at all.
So my point is that if you engage someone within their EFFECTIVE range, then your TTK will be very VERY short, and this is INTENTIONAL! If you engage outside the EFFECTIVE range, then you get more time.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
301
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Posted - 2013.12.16 18:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:And you still didn't get the point. What RANGE were you at when you died in under a second? If it was less than 50 meters, then hell yes that is as it's supposed to be. If it was longer thatn 100 meters and done by something other than a sniper rifle or forge gun or something similar, then something might be wrong.
I think your missing the point, range is not a factor for only forge and sniper.Ever other weapon have to play within the range of the rifles.You have no choice but to be in the rifle range.So what your saying is you should use a forge or sniper if you dont want to die in under 4 secs ? Nope, you are missing the point. For every weapon in this game there is an EFFECTIVE range and an ABSOLUTE range. Your weapon will deal it's maximum damage somewhere within it's EFFECTIVE range. It will deal significantly less damage between it's EFFECTIVE range and its ABSOLUTE range. Beyond the ABSOLUTE range it deals no damage at all. So my point is that if you engage someone within their EFFECTIVE range, then your TTK will be very VERY short, and this is INTENTIONAL! If you engage outside the EFFECTIVE range, then you get more time.
So everyone within 50 meters of a rifle should die instantly.
Got it. |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
241
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 23:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:And you still didn't get the point. What RANGE were you at when you died in under a second? If it was less than 50 meters, then hell yes that is as it's supposed to be. If it was longer thatn 100 meters and done by something other than a sniper rifle or forge gun or something similar, then something might be wrong.
I think your missing the point, range is not a factor for only forge and sniper.Ever other weapon have to play within the range of the rifles.You have no choice but to be in the rifle range.So what your saying is you should use a forge or sniper if you dont want to die in under 4 secs ? Nope, you are missing the point. For every weapon in this game there is an EFFECTIVE range and an ABSOLUTE range. Your weapon will deal it's maximum damage somewhere within it's EFFECTIVE range. It will deal significantly less damage between it's EFFECTIVE range and its ABSOLUTE range. Beyond the ABSOLUTE range it deals no damage at all. So my point is that if you engage someone within their EFFECTIVE range, then your TTK will be very VERY short, and this is INTENTIONAL! If you engage outside the EFFECTIVE range, then you get more time. So everyone within 50 meters of a rifle should die instantly. Got it.
Finally.
=P |
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