DUST Search - 1.7 AV range change from both sides

Exmaple Core wrote:

At Baal, no you havent, you saw something else because it is literally impossible for tanks to outrun swarms, you can only put on one speed boosting mod per vehicle, any vehicle period. Ive seen The Legend's tank use this and still couldent outrun swarms (an armor tank is somehow the faster tank, so gunlogi cant ethire). So throw up a video of the impossible if serious, because you saw one thing and i saw the other. On a thread were the OP has video proof and we both have only words, you need videos to prove your statements!

Also, i dont think geometry has anything to do with 50m distance being more efficient for AV than it is vehicles. Wethire the swarmers lock on in rectangles or circles the dropship and sometimes tanks wont see the SL so the SL can just lock on when hes able too. Which is pretty much 100% of the time as long as stuff arnt in the way. And besides, if rectangles and squares are really that important, just pick up a forge gun? It can one shot the best dropships if you use breach

MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!


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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 820	Posted - 2013.12.10 03:57:00 - [1] - Quote I would like to say a few words. I do not debate anything I have seen in your videos so far. I do however feel that you have left some things out. I am a swarm launcher user, and I have only solo'd 5 ADS in all of Uprising, all of which due to pilots being overconfident and/or reckless. Most shield ADS fits I've run into would take 3-4 of my prof. 5 swarms to kill if they activate their reppers after getting hit by the first one. However they always take off and out run my swarms instead. ADS is only barely solo-able as it is RIGHT NOW with swarm launchers, and that's IF they stick around to try to fight you instead of jetting off at the first sign of AV. (By saying this I in no way mean to infer that they should be solo-able, just mentioning it because of how common soloing other vehicles is) Of course this all goes out the window when you bring in forge guns, but on the topic of swarms alone, I feel that this should be noted. You don't see people going around soloing ADS's with swarms. If a swarm kills an ADS, it's because either A) He had help B) The DS was injured when the swarmer came upon it C) The pilot was reckless/careless/overconfident. The upcoming range cut (which was needed, though I'm on the fence about how I feel on the actual size of the cut) doesn't quite effect things in the way your video portrays. You leave out elevation entirely in that video. In your supposed scenario, that guy in the redline is on much lower elevation that the objective B or objective C. The range of the swarm is a spherical bubble around the player, which means the furthest range he can fire in any direction (N/S/E/W and all the in-betweens) is in a straight horizontal line from the player. Deviate even slightly up or down and the distance in that direction lessens. So if the player you have marked in the redline in that swarm video of yours video was on even terrain with objective B, and if the spires at and near objective A weren't in the way, and the DS was sitting on the road in the middle of I7 on your map at the edge of your range circle.... then yes, a swarm could theoretically lock on to a DS from that far out. At realistic flight heights however of around 20-30m above the ground, aiming in that same direction towards that same DS, with the player in that very low elevation area, that line would be cut back to around the map line between G7 and H7. To summarize that, your video makes it look as though swarm locking range is cylindrical around them, when it is in fact spherical. This makes a huge difference on what you can lock onto as opposed to what you cannot. I hope you don't think I am nit-picking at this, this is just a huge oversight that really bothered me because no one ever mentions it. Lastly, it isn't only ADS's that can outrun swarms. I have LITERALLY SEEN TANKS that can out run my swarms. This is ridiculous. 2 times in the last month I have come across these things. You throw an AV grenade and they start moving, and by the time you have a swarm off they are moving fast enough to stay ahead of your swarms until the swarms disappear. I feel that if the lock range and damage of our weapon is to be cut (clip size was already cut down to 3), the least we can get in return is a speed increase to our missiles. We'll have to be over 2x as close to even attempt a lock, and vehicles will have to move less than half the distance to prevent us from locking on with a second volley. The least we can get is an assurance that if we DO get a volley off, that only the most nimble of pilots or most speed oriented ships can avoid them. Especially since we are now out ranged by all missile turrets, ans their missiles are WAAAAY faster than ours. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 823	Posted - 2013.12.10 05:26:00 - [2] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: At Baal, no you havent, you saw something else because it is literally impossible for tanks to outrun swarms, you can only put on one speed boosting mod per vehicle, any vehicle period. Ive seen The Legend's tank use this and still couldent outrun swarms (an armor tank is somehow the faster tank, so gunlogi cant ethire). So throw up a video of the impossible if serious, because you saw one thing and i saw the other. On a thread were the OP has video proof and we both have only words, you need videos to prove your statements! Also, i dont think geometry has anything to do with 50m distance being more efficient for AV than it is vehicles. Wethire the swarmers lock on in rectangles or circles the dropship and sometimes tanks wont see the SL so the SL can just lock on when hes able too. Which is pretty much 100% of the time as long as stuff arnt in the way. And besides, if rectangles and squares are really that important, just pick up a forge gun? It can one shot the best dropships if you use breach Allow me to rephrase myself, since I was apparently misleading in my statement. The tank was not able to "out run" my swarms, as in move faster than them. The tank was able to move fast enough that my swarms could not reach it before they reached their absolute range and disappeared. At a guess, the swarms were fired from around 40-60m away while the tank was already moving away at full speed (as I said, I hit it with an AV grenade first and it got moving). Also, as I'm sure you know, kb/m allows tanks to move FAR faster than a regular tank with the same fittings. My apologies, I do not have recording devices. If you require video proof, then you will have to continue to doubt me as I have no money to buy a recording device exclusively to prove something that plenty of people have seen to strangers whom I'll never meet in a video game forum for a free-to-play game. I'm afraid I simply have way too many bills to be able to afford such a trivial luxury. Geometry has everything to do with it actually. Look at the circle in that video. Now imagine that map in 3D as if you were on the map. Now, from the ground to the sky, that circle is a cylinder like this with the player in the center at the bottom. That is what the video unintentionally suggests is the range of a swarm. Now imagine yourself again in that 3D map, but this time a half sphere is sitting on the player, the player being at the center middle of the half sphere. Since the map has varied elevations, and since the sphere is sitting on a player who is on a very low elevation, the furthest reaches of the sphere are underground, and the further up in the air you go, the less outwards from the players location the lock range goes, until you reach the highest point at which a player can shoot, which is directly above their head. Most video games are all about geometry, don't be dissin' the maths. Lastly, I wrote this because though swarms are in need of fixing, they need more than simple nerfs. If I wanted to use a forge gun, I would. Since this player who wrote this thread seemed very concerned with balance between infantry, AV and vehicles I felt I would throw in my two cents on the matter of swarms. I was in no way complaining about swarms being unable to kill DS's, and I certainly was not asking for someone to tell me a better way to deal with them. I'm fully aware of what forge guns can do to dropships. That doesn't mean I don't want to balance the other AV weapons just because one of them works exceedingly well. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!