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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1172
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Interficite Omnem, or Kill everything complex physically damages this game.
In games like COD and BF3 and other popular FPS titles, multi-player focuses on one role, and one role only. The Slayer
There are no tactics to the game, the goal is simple, kill everyone who wanders infront of your barrel.
Which is fine, that's down to those games, they have a loyal fanbase that likes that kind of game. But what happens when you come to a game like DUST, with potentially unlimited roles? You look for the Slayer role, the easiest to play, you take the path of least resistance.
As such we have Medium Assault Suits, which just scream the slayer role, it's used for assaulting, so by definition it should be awesome at killing. But there is a problem, this game is deeper than that. Sentinels make for unparalleled defense when using a Scrambler Rifle.
But of course Assault suits don't understand this,
I am the assault class, I should be able to assault that position
The fact there is a defensive unit makes no difference.
In addition how do you make one suit, superior at Assaulting than any other?
How do you do it, without making it OP?
How do you make it better at killing without making it better at killing?
This is why ultimately the Assault Suit ruins the game, there is no "Slayer" role here, just people forcing the Slayer upon suits not designed for it.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Rogue Saint
Science For Death
592
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Sentinels make for unparalleled defense when using a Scrambler Rifle.
There are zero heavies with light weapons performing defence. All of them are glorified Assault suits.
GôêGÆ+GÆ+GƦ - Bringing the dakka
[The whiny Scout]
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
2055
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can't have an army without the infantry. |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1172
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Sentinels make for unparalleled defense when using a Scrambler Rifle. There are zero heavies with light weapons performing defence. All of them are glorified Assault suits.
Your problem exaclty
You don't see them as Sentinels performing defence, despite the fact I have seen and know of sentinels who do stay behind, the fact they use a light weapon is neither here nor there.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1172
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:You can't have an army without the infantry.
Quite true, but in an Army everyone has a role, there is a medic, a combat engineer, a grenadier, a point man, a marks man and a squad lead, there is no one who has the plain and simple job of "kill everything infront of you"
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Top Men.
261
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:You can't have an army without the infantry. Quite true, but in an Army everyone has a role, there is a medic, a combat engineer, a grenadier, a point man, a marks man and a squad lead, there is no one who has the plain and simple job of "kill everything infront of you"
Sure there is. They call them Marines. |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1172
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Posted - 2013.12.09 11:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:You can't have an army without the infantry. Quite true, but in an Army everyone has a role, there is a medic, a combat engineer, a grenadier, a point man, a marks man and a squad lead, there is no one who has the plain and simple job of "kill everything infront of you" Sure there is. They call them Marines.
Still have roles my friend, if you think the marines JUST kill people you go have another look.
There is tactics, there are fire teams there are squads, there are manouvers.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Mregomies
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
130
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Posted - 2013.12.09 12:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
In my dream good squad could be like this.
1 assault /squadleader
2 AV/smg
3 heavy
4 AR/logistic
5 sniper/marksman
6 assault
Domination.
Sniper leaves behind in a good spot
squadleader and 2nd assault keep front and back clear until objective reached. heavy and logi builds a defence in object. AV does AV thing.
IMO
Suomi, Finland, PERKELE!
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1173
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Posted - 2013.12.09 12:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mregomies wrote:In my dream good squad could be like this.
1 assault /squadleader
2 AV/smg
3 heavy
4 AR/logistic
5 sniper/marksman
6 assault
Domination.
Sniper leaves behind in a good spot
squadleader and 2nd assault keep front and back clear until objective reached. heavy and logi builds a defence in object. AV does AV thing.
IMO
Fair enough, but as you see, you aren't using your assault for slaying, you are using him as point man, takes the front sponges a bit of damage deals it back. You know like an assault should be used.
Not charging through enemy lines like rambo on caffine.
My perfect squad goes more like this.
Fire-team 1
1) Squad-lead (In crusader suit , when released), Plasma Rifle (or racial rifle weapon of choice)
2) Grenadier (In Grenadier suit, when released), Mass Driver (or racial AOE weapon of choice)
3) Medic (In logistics suit), Any Weapon (Hives, Tool, Needle, Shield Bubble)
4) Combat Engineer (In logistics suit), Any Weapon (Explosives, Turret, Dragons Teeth, Drones)
Supplementary Units
5) Scout (In Scout Suit) Any Weapon (Scanner)
6) Sniper (In Scout Suit), Sniper Rifle (Or racial sniper weapon of choice), (laser designator)
No Squad) Vehicle Support
Linked in via Comms
HAV
HAAV
MAAV
MAV
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Top Men.
262
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Posted - 2013.12.09 12:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wasn't being serious with the Marine comment, but I see we are in full mil-sim mode ITT. I think the game you are looking for is called Arma. This game has 'roles' but they are loose and can be considered as more of a venn diagram than a hard choice. |
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
257
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Posted - 2013.12.09 12:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
I suggest using wp yo encourage role specific behavior
Assaults get their points
Logis have their points (and the the assaults too atm)
If their were more incentives to specialize (but not force) wed see more diversity
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1174
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Posted - 2013.12.09 12:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:I suggest using wp yo encourage role specific behavior
Assaults get their points
Logis have their points (and the the assaults too atm)
If their were more incentives to specialize (but not force) wed see more diversity
True but why would one suit be inestivised JUST to kill, moreover how would you make that suit better designed to kill than other suits, without being overpowered?
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1174
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Posted - 2013.12.09 13:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:I wasn't being serious with the Marine comment, but I see we are in full mil-sim mode ITT. I think the game you are looking for is called Arma. This game has 'roles' but they are loose and can be considered as more of a venn diagram than a hard choice.
My apologies, I was expecting more trolls!
I'm not quite looking for a "full military simulator", but the point I'm making is how can you have a role that specializes in killing better than everyone else, without making it overpowered.
You can't, which is why the Assault Suit is ultimately flawed in design, people spec into the suit because they want to kill, but the suit isn't much better at killing than any other suit in the game.
They can't tank as much Heavies (otherwise Assaults would be overpowered)
They can't move as fast as Scouts (otherwise Assaults would be overpowered)
They can't do more damage with their weaponry (otherwise Assaults would be overpowered)
Basically the only thing you could do would be to change the assault sidearm to another light weapon, but that doesn't make it any better at killing, it merely increases how much killing it can do before running out of ammo.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
268
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Posted - 2013.12.09 13:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:You can't have an army without the infantry. Quite true, but in an Army everyone has a role, there is a medic, a combat engineer, a grenadier, a point man, a marks man and a squad lead, there is no one who has the plain and simple job of "kill everything infront of you" Sure there is. They call them Marines.
Lol!
Nuff Said
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
647
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Posted - 2013.12.09 13:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Basically the only thing you could do would be to change the assault sidearm to another light weapon, but that doesn't make it any better at killing, it merely increases how much killing it can do before running out of ammo.
OMG, the people you call "slayers" would cream their pants if you gave them a faster assault version of the commando!
Actually, who am I kidding. So would I!
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1175
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Posted - 2013.12.09 13:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Basically the only thing you could do would be to change the assault sidearm to another light weapon, but that doesn't make it any better at killing, it merely increases how much killing it can do before running out of ammo.
OMG, the people you call "slayers" would cream their pants if you gave them a faster assault version of the commando! Actually, who am I kidding. So would I!
Yeah for about a week, it wouldn't make them any better in reality, if they can't kill people with an AR before giving them 2 won't make a difference.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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