DUST Search - BPO talk

Pete B wrote:

Slag Emberforge wrote:

1. If this change were instituted it would necessarily have to be for all BPOs.
-- what are you going to do with all others?

Only light weapons, grenades, and sidearms are going to be produced in the space cabin. Vehicles, heavy weapons, and dropsuits would be able to be produced on districts.

Slag Emberforge wrote:

2. How does this stop "money generation from nothing" which is supposedly the problem
-- players make and stockpile or make and sell items without doing anything other than logging on

I would say that passive SP, and log on SP, and districts selling clones is a larger issue than single players selling small amounts of standard, already cheap firearms. Stuff thats already 1.5K ISK, would be sold for 1 or 0.5K ISK in the player market, and give they are going to be produced in a space cabin, they aren't going to be making all that much.

Slag Emberforge wrote:

3. While BPOs are currently "unlimited earning potential" in terms of user performance (playing matches and making higher profit per match, this would allow a finite amount of money produced outside of battle all the time, whether or not they are used in battles.

I think this would be mechanically different but actually provide a larger discrepancy between players who have/ don't have BPOs

I don't quite get what you mean. In this system, BPO's cannot be attached to fittings like they are now. I can't hold a computer file of a CAD, but I can 3D print off that CAD and hold that item. Does that make sense?
In this case, the player would need to buy the room, then buy the power generators and processing units, then the production unit, and then press play and wait. Once the player has a large enough batch that they want to sell, they would have to buy a license to sell them on the dedicated market, or they could forgo that license and sell them to individuals person to person.

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Pete B The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 58	Posted - 2013.12.06 12:55:00 - [1] - Quote So CCP has stopped generally the official trading BPO's (note official, still willing to buy a templar uplink for 10mill), and because they say its not how they wish for them to function. Well, I can kinda understand why. Seeing as everyone and their grandmas has at least an assault rifle BPO, they stop people from buying standard assault rifles, which means that who ever would be making assault rifles would have to move to making advanced or proto assault which cost more (because we all know that CCP plans to have an entity from DUST, EVE or both, produce goods for dust). Another issue is that if people are using BPO's instead of buying, it kinda stifles the market. My idea is that in that space cabin that everyone has, introduce a tiny production facility. Ya know, open it up a little. The market can have a 'rooms' option that would allow players to buy rooms or items for their space cabin (I'm just gonna call it that forever until I get a proper name). These rooms range from small to XL and can be fitted with power supply and processing unit that would be needed to use other items; room auxiliary units. This is where dem BPO's come into place. In these, you can buy 'production units', and each room has a certain capacity of them, and each unit has to be powered and has to be connected to a processing unit. Depending on what faction item, production speed, and size you are processing at, will depend on how many of what resources it will take up. Each production unit has to be installed with a BPO and that unit will churn out that BPO's standard equivalent at a certain rate, meaning that if you die alot, you gonna have to buy stuff and can't rely on those churned out BPO's alone. Players would also be able to sell their churned out BPO's, or sell the BPO's themselves. Of course though, the only things that could be churned out are light weapons, and sidarms, no vehicles, heavy weapons, or dropsuits. They would have to be produced in a district.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 197	Posted - 2013.12.06 13:07:00 - [2] - Quote This idea has been presented before; I think it is well thought out, with a couple caviats: 1. If this change were instituted it would necessarily have to be for all BPOs -- what are you going to do with all others? 2. How does this stop "money generation from nothing" which is supposedly the problem -- players make and stockpile or make and sell items without doing anything other than logging on 3. While BPOs are currently "unlimited earning potential" in terms of user performance (playing matches and making higher profit per match, this would allow a finite amount of money produced outside of battle all the time, whether or not they are used in battles. I think this would be mechanically different but actually provide a larger discrepancy between players who have/ don't have BPOs
Pete B The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 58	Posted - 2013.12.06 13:27:00 - [3] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: 1. If this change were instituted it would necessarily have to be for all BPOs. -- what are you going to do with all others? Only light weapons, grenades, and sidearms are going to be produced in the space cabin. Vehicles, heavy weapons, and dropsuits would be able to be produced on districts. Slag Emberforge wrote: 2. How does this stop "money generation from nothing" which is supposedly the problem -- players make and stockpile or make and sell items without doing anything other than logging on I would say that passive SP, and log on SP, and districts selling clones is a larger issue than single players selling small amounts of standard, already cheap firearms. Stuff thats already 1.5K ISK, would be sold for 1 or 0.5K ISK in the player market, and give they are going to be produced in a space cabin, they aren't going to be making all that much. Slag Emberforge wrote: 3. While BPOs are currently "unlimited earning potential" in terms of user performance (playing matches and making higher profit per match, this would allow a finite amount of money produced outside of battle all the time, whether or not they are used in battles. I think this would be mechanically different but actually provide a larger discrepancy between players who have/ don't have BPOs I don't quite get what you mean. In this system, BPO's cannot be attached to fittings like they are now. I can't hold a computer file of a CAD, but I can 3D print off that CAD and hold that item. Does that make sense? In this case, the player would need to buy the room, then buy the power generators and processing units, then the production unit, and then press play and wait. Once the player has a large enough batch that they want to sell, they would have to buy a license to sell them on the dedicated market, or they could forgo that license and sell them to individuals person to person.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 197	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:12:00 - [4] - Quote Pete B wrote: Slag Emberforge wrote: 1. If this change were instituted it would necessarily have to be for all BPOs. -- what are you going to do with all others? Only light weapons, grenades, and sidearms are going to be produced in the space cabin. Vehicles, heavy weapons, and dropsuits would be able to be produced on districts. Slag Emberforge wrote: 2. How does this stop "money generation from nothing" which is supposedly the problem -- players make and stockpile or make and sell items without doing anything other than logging on I would say that passive SP, and log on SP, and districts selling clones is a larger issue than single players selling small amounts of standard, already cheap firearms. Stuff thats already 1.5K ISK, would be sold for 1 or 0.5K ISK in the player market, and give they are going to be produced in a space cabin, they aren't going to be making all that much. Slag Emberforge wrote: 3. While BPOs are currently "unlimited earning potential" in terms of user performance (playing matches and making higher profit per match, this would allow a finite amount of money produced outside of battle all the time, whether or not they are used in battles. I think this would be mechanically different but actually provide a larger discrepancy between players who have/ don't have BPOs I don't quite get what you mean. In this system, BPO's cannot be attached to fittings like they are now. I can't hold a computer file of a CAD, but I can 3D print off that CAD and hold that item. Does that make sense? In this case, the player would need to buy the room, then buy the power generators and processing units, then the production unit, and then press play and wait. Once the player has a large enough batch that they want to sell, they would have to buy a license to sell them on the dedicated market, or they could forgo that license and sell them to individuals person to person. 1. This seems unnecessarily punitive to heavies or BPO buyers in general - we still bought the BPO we should not be required to have a corp to use them. If BPOs are going to be just "blueprints" they should be producible independent of whether your corp is good or not. 2. You are still producing isk over time without work 3. I should clarify Currently: Players need to actively play to generate return on investment by using and dying in battle. Suggestion: Players make money without stepping foot in battle Currently: profit from merit which scales Suggestion: profit accrued over time automatically
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2092	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:21:00 - [5] - Quote All current mercenary gear is produced from blueprints, whether originals or licensed copies, on demand. Until some form of materials are required to create the physical copy then the market will only be for trading BPCs that you have no interest in. I see trade of physical items working when Warbarges and MCCs are player controlled and deployed to battles. Vehicles and deployable items will be made by players and delivered to war zones. Infantry gear could be made on-demand in CRUs, Supply Depots and MCCs using some type of 'nanite paste' that is consumed to make the items. Nanite paste will create a cost for all weapons whether they use BPC or BPO. CCP just needs to make this happen. // Adapt or Die // Matari Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // @ReesNoturana
Pete B The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 58	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:28:00 - [6] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: 1. This seems unnecessarily punitive to heavies or BPO buyers in general - we still bought the BPO we should not be required to have a corp to use them. If BPOs are going to be just "blueprints" they should be producible independent of whether your corp is good or not. I can see that, well then. Lets open the option of opening up the space cabin, and letting there be an entire production facility to produce larger things such as vehicles, dropsuits and heavy weapons, but they need a larger initial investment such as more processing power, more power generation and larger rooms. Slag Emberforge wrote: 2. You are still producing isk over time without work If your issue is producing ISK over time for nothing then lets get rid of districts producing clones and the ability to sell said clones. Do you see the issue with saying that? Lets not have double standards and say free SP and corp only ISK generation is OK, but individual ISK generation isn't. Slag Emberforge wrote: 3. I should clarify Currently: Players need to actively play to generate return on investment by using and dying in battle. Suggestion: Players make money without stepping foot in battle Currently: profit from merit which scales Suggestion: profit accrued over time automatically But you DO need to go into battle. Did I not say that you need to invest ISK first? Where are you going to get that ISK? And in order to sell those items on a dedicated market you need to buy a license. Where are you going to get the money to buy said license? And if you don't want to sell your stuff, then you can use it for yourself, by using them and dying in battle with your created stuff.
Pete B The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 58	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:30:00 - [7] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Nanite paste will create a cost for all weapons whether they use BPC or BPO. CCP just needs to make this happen. I have to ask, what is a BPO and BPC?
pyramidhead 420 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 195	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:30:00 - [8] - Quote i paid 50mil for my uplink bpo, and theres very few left. price only goes up with less supply. you wont see one for less than 75mil atm...if you can find any at all. lav bpo's for 60mil , is the only bpo readily available right now.
4447 Resolution XIII 909	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:32:00 - [9] - Quote Are BPO really affecting public matches I mean how much isk is really being lost from using BPO Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Pete B The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 58	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:51:00 - [10] - Quote 4447 wrote: Are BPO really affecting public matches I mean how much isk is really being lost from using BPO Well my all BPO logi fit would of costed around 7.5K so not a great deal but it snowballs fast when you only do standard, and you would of died 10-15 times that match and lost 115K ish (in my case ayway).

Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 170	Posted - 2013.12.06 22:30:00 - [11] - Quote Pete B wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Nanite paste will create a cost for all weapons whether they use BPC or BPO. CCP just needs to make this happen. I have to ask, what is a BPO and BPC? BPO stands for Blueprint Original BPC stands for Blueprint Copy How it works in EVE (where this came from) is that if you own a BPO you can produce an infinite number of said item (runs as it is called). You still have to get all of the materials to build the item, but as long as you have materials you can keep building. BPC are created from BPO, and are good for a fixed number of runs. So if i make a BPC with 100 runs on it, i or anyone else can use that BPC to make up to 100 units. Once that 100 is reached the BPC is consumed. CCP has stated before that having EVE players produce the goods is on their road map, so don't expect to see blueprints change to what the OP is suggesting. Its not going to happen. What will happen is at some point down the road they will introduce player manufacturing of DUST goods. They will release blueprint BPO's for ISK onto the EVE market. It will require some materials from eve, some from DUST, and EVE will ramp up manufacturing to meet DUST's demands. We will get a refund of AUR for our blueprints, players will complain, and things will move on. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum


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