DUST Search - Something people don't seem to be discussing about LP payout.

Jadu Wen wrote:

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

The market will cause a self-cap. You will be able to earn as much as you can afford to spend isk on (because that's what you'll need to do to earn it and buy it).

If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate.

The indirect effect likely being that unless you can consistently get a rediculous KDR(>10:1) AND WIN, then people will likely spike their standing, get their payouts, and then revert back to public matches to find a pub:FW rate that matches the rate that they can convert LP to usable goods.

Until we have a player traded market, it will be difficult play FW for its own profit. Its profit will be indirect.

Agreed, but this is where corporations sitting on districts in Molden Heath come into a bit of a win fall with their clone production and isk reserves.

So it's an even bigger sink than I anticipated. Nice job CCP! Big smile

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Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:16:00 - [1] - Quote I may have missed something in the new dev blog, but I did not see any cap tied to your faction balance. The more games you play efficiently, the better your payout becomes. If that is case, this is a "Gold Grinder's" wet dream. Just keep this individual on an isk retainer + production fee to purchase the faction specific items you desire at launch of the secondary market with a final delivery bonus of goods rendered. I certainly know I'll be playing faction matches with my trusty Winmatar charge sniper combo for precision kills without the mess of accidental TK. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5719	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:17:00 - [2] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: I certainly know I'll be playing faction matches with my trusty Winmatar charge sniper combo for precision kills without the mess of accidental TK. TKs your proto sniper Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:18:00 - [3] - Quote I am enlisting my services for gear grinding of your faction choice. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:18:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: I certainly know I'll be playing faction matches with my trusty Winmatar charge sniper combo for precision kills without the mess of accidental TK. TKs your proto sniper Respawns with throwaway alt fit and core grenades. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: I certainly know I'll be playing faction matches with my trusty Winmatar charge sniper combo for precision kills without the mess of accidental TK. TKs your proto sniper If it really comes down to it, I have a fully BPO sniper sub-machine gun fit....I call it the Nod Keras [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 596	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:20:00 - [6] - Quote the cap is the fact that you standing only goes up to 10 (or 11 isn't clear) ... the graph may look like it's exponential, but if you can only reach level 10 standing then you can only reach so far up the curve on the LP payouts. Edit : Unless you 'actually' ment "balance" ... there's no cap to your isk balance, why would there be a cap to your LP balance.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:24:00 - [7] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: the cap is the fact that you standing only goes up to 10 (or 11 isn't clear) ... the graph may look like it's exponential, but if you can only reach level 10 standing then you can only reach so far up the curve on the LP payouts. Yes I understand the point, but you can still keep earning at that level 10 amount which appeared to be just shy of 70,000 LPs. There is no cap on the overall amount you can earn, thus perpetual grinding becomes possible option. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
God Hates Lags Red Star. EoN. 512	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:25:00 - [8] - Quote First of all LP is rewarded for winning FW, so keep your trusty sniper to pubs and actually fight. Second, LP is capped at ten, but yes I can imagine once trading starts that some will just fight FW matches and sell their weapons to continue funding their campaigns. Doubles ISK
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 288	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:29:00 - [9] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: First of all LP is rewarded for winning FW...LP is capped at ten. Both of things are true of standings, not of LP, if I'm reading the dev blog correctly. RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:30:00 - [10] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: First of all LP is rewarded for winning FW, so keep your trusty sniper to pubs and actually fight. Second, LP is capped at ten, but yes I can imagine once trading starts that some will just fight FW matches and sell their weapons to continue funding their campaigns. Fair enough. I do like that interesting dynamic that will occur when Logibros can no longer farm WPs for orbitals. This actually rewards slayers and effective logistic operators backing up those fighters. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]

Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 99	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:31:00 - [11] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: I may have missed something in the new dev blog, but I did not see any cap tied to your faction balance. The more games you play efficiently, the better your payout becomes. If that is case, this is a "Gold Grinder's" wet dream. Just keep this individual on an isk retainer + production fee to purchase the faction specific items you desire at launch of the secondary market with a final delivery bonus of goods rendered. I certainly know I'll be playing faction matches with my trusty Winmatar charge sniper combo for precision kills without the mess of accidental TK. You missed the part where all FW rewards cost not just LPs but also ISK too. This is just like in EVE where items in the LP store cost a combination of ISK, LPs, and sometimes require that you turn in the "basic-item" to be used in the construction of the FW version of the item.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1812	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:34:00 - [12] - Quote The market will cause a self-cap. You will be able to earn as much as you can afford to spend isk on (because that's what you'll need to do to earn it and buy it). If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate. The indirect effect likely being that unless you can consistently get a rediculous KDR(>10:1) AND WIN, then people will likely spike their standing, get their payouts, and then revert back to public matches to find a pub:FW rate that matches the rate that they can convert LP to usable goods. Until we have a player traded market, it will be difficult play FW for its own profit. Its profit will be indirect.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:37:00 - [13] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: I may have missed something in the new dev blog, but I did not see any cap tied to your faction balance. The more games you play efficiently, the better your payout becomes. If that is case, this is a "Gold Grinder's" wet dream. Just keep this individual on an isk retainer + production fee to purchase the faction specific items you desire at launch of the secondary market with a final delivery bonus of goods rendered. I certainly know I'll be playing faction matches with my trusty Winmatar charge sniper combo for precision kills without the mess of accidental TK. You missed the part where all FW rewards cost not just LPs but also ISK too. This is just like in EVE where items in the LP store cost a combination of ISK, LPs, and sometimes require that you turn in the "basic-item" to be used in the construction of the FW version of the item. I think you misread what I wrote. The client would provide production capital to the gold grinder + the retainer fee (periodic payment, or bonus payment rendered on delivery of goods). The production capital would be used by the grinder to purchase weapons with that player's stock the Loyalty Points. Some corporations, i.e. Niyan San may find this lucrative so they can continue to pubstomp while not needing to worry about the FW sink and loss of protogear. . [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:40:00 - [14] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: The market will cause a self-cap. You will be able to earn as much as you can afford to spend isk on (because that's what you'll need to do to earn it and buy it). If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate. The indirect effect likely being that unless you can consistently get a rediculous KDR(>10:1) AND WIN, then people will likely spike their standing, get their payouts, and then revert back to public matches to find a pub:FW rate that matches the rate that they can convert LP to usable goods. Until we have a player traded market, it will be difficult play FW for its own profit. Its profit will be indirect. Agreed, but this is where corporations sitting on districts in Molden Heath come into a bit of a win fall with their clone production and isk reserves. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Jadu Wen Xer Deadspace 191	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:42:00 - [15] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: The market will cause a self-cap. You will be able to earn as much as you can afford to spend isk on (because that's what you'll need to do to earn it and buy it). If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate. The indirect effect likely being that unless you can consistently get a rediculous KDR(>10:1) AND WIN, then people will likely spike their standing, get their payouts, and then revert back to public matches to find a pub:FW rate that matches the rate that they can convert LP to usable goods. Until we have a player traded market, it will be difficult play FW for its own profit. Its profit will be indirect. Agreed, but this is where corporations sitting on districts in Molden Heath come into a bit of a win fall with their clone production and isk reserves. So it's an even bigger sink than I anticipated. Nice job CCP! GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûäGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûÇGûäGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûäGûä GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÇGûê ? SoonGäó
Spaceballs The Profile Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:43:00 - [16] - Quote But if you're sinking ISK into goods, what do you do with all that extra merchandise. Trust me, I know merchandise!
MySpaceTom Xer Cloud Consortium 67	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:46:00 - [17] - Quote Spaceballs The Profile wrote: But if you're sinking ISK into goods, what do you do with all that extra merchandise. Trust me, I know merchandise! Spaceballs The Duvolle Specialist Assault Rifle Spaceballs The CreoDron Specialist Shotgun Spaceballs The Allotek Specialist Plasma Cannon Spaceballs The Boundless Specialist Combat Rifle Spaceballs The Freedom Specialist Mass Driver Spaceballs The Viziam Specialist Laser Rifle Spaceballs The Specialist Scrambler Rifle Spaceballs The Kaalakiota Specialist Rail Rifle Spaceballs The Wiyrkomi Specialist Swarm Launcher Spaceballs, the search for more ISK!!! 4920616d204a6164656b204d656e616865696d277320526167696e672042696c652044756374
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 571	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:48:00 - [18] - Quote Lesson learned. Do not underestimate the Xer's greed. You guys are like the Ferengi of Dust. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1813	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:53:00 - [19] - Quote Jadu Wen wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: The market will cause a self-cap. You will be able to earn as much as you can afford to spend isk on (because that's what you'll need to do to earn it and buy it). If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate. The indirect effect likely being that unless you can consistently get a rediculous KDR(>10:1) AND WIN, then people will likely spike their standing, get their payouts, and then revert back to public matches to find a pub:FW rate that matches the rate that they can convert LP to usable goods. Until we have a player traded market, it will be difficult play FW for its own profit. Its profit will be indirect. Agreed, but this is where corporations sitting on districts in Molden Heath come into a bit of a win fall with their clone production and isk reserves. So it's an even bigger sink than I anticipated. Nice job CCP! Yep, and if they were smart, they will time their isk reserves to pay out over time. There will be two big floods of spending. My guess is that currently about 5 to 10% of the playerbase (The Veterans) are still sitting on their piles of isk totaling 100million isk or more (like myself) who were refunded when Uprising changed all the prices. Then there are The Elites (1-2%) who have > 500 mill each. Districts are no longer passively generating isk at the same rate they were before, so they aren't as lucrative. So the elites aren't sitting on unassailable mounds of isk to the degree they were before. The Veterans income has probably largely been static, or slowly declining as they've dabbled with getting into PC. PC holding Veterans will have a time management issue now with FW 2.0. In order to leverage sufficient amount of Proto faction LP gear they won't be able to just buy it, they will have to win FW matches for it. To the degree that their corp's fitting doctrine homogenizes with their individual doctrines and FW activity, they will be able to purchase and fund FW quality gear in matches.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 551	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:04:00 - [20] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate. The OP has been changed to include this epiphany on the isk sink. Thank you sir [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]

MySpaceTom Xer Cloud Consortium 68	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:08:00 - [21] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: If you have a million LP, and each LP costs 100 isk per LP to convert into goods, you will have to sink 100 million isk to make that LP useful. The higher standings you have, the higher profit rate you will have to have to make it all into something (I'm not sure they've done the math on this yet). IOW if you are 'grinding' FW at this high rate, you will have to grind isk at an even higher rate. The OP has been changed to include this epiphany on the isk sink. Thank you sir So basically you're saying, go ahead a team kill a little to knock down your standing because you're going to have more damned Loyalty Points than you'd know what to do with if you grinded games at standing 10 all day. Then you'll just feel bad about yourself for having too much that you really can't do much with because you're locked out on isk.. BPO BASHING FOR THE WIN, ME HEARTIES!!!!!! 4920616d204a6164656b204d656e616865696d277320526167696e672042696c652044756374
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2125	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:19:00 - [22] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: First of all LP is rewarded for winning FW, so keep your trusty sniper to pubs and actually fight. Second, LP is capped at ten, but yes I can imagine once trading starts that some will just fight FW matches and sell their weapons to continue funding their campaigns. Fair enough. I do like that interesting dynamic that will occur when Logibros can no longer farm WPs for orbitals. This actually rewards slayers and effective logistic operators backing up those fighters. Not sure how you figure that. WP are WP and you either have Eve support or you don't. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 552	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:25:00 - [23] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: First of all LP is rewarded for winning FW, so keep your trusty sniper to pubs and actually fight. Second, LP is capped at ten, but yes I can imagine once trading starts that some will just fight FW matches and sell their weapons to continue funding their campaigns. Fair enough. I do like that interesting dynamic that will occur when Logibros can no longer farm WPs for orbitals. This actually rewards slayers and effective logistic operators backing up those fighters. Not sure how you figure that. WP are WP and you either have Eve support or you don't. I guess I was thinking along the lines of Orbital spam. Now that there's a timer for EVE side orbital strike use this will foreseeably reduce the spamming of multiple orbitals by proto logi farmers. Yes, WPs are still valuable. However; orbital counts per match will be far easier for CCP to control under the new faction warfare mechanics in those match contexts. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
pyramidhead 420 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 174	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:39:00 - [24] - Quote please take your charge sniper rifle and fight for the amarr, snipers arent welcome in here
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 552	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:44:00 - [25] - Quote pyramidhead 420 wrote: please take your charge sniper rifle and fight for the amarr, snipers arent welcome in here Lolz, a tryhard with 'honor.' Ehhhh, I've been playing this game for so long that I have to switch things up now and again from logi support. Sniping is just a relaxing hobby. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
pyramidhead 420 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 174	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:57:00 - [26] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: pyramidhead 420 wrote: please take your charge sniper rifle and fight for the amarr, snipers arent welcome in here Lolz, a tryhard with 'honor.' Ehhhh, I've been playing this game for so long that I have to switch things up now and again from logi support. Sniping is just a relaxing hobby. im just bustin your ballz, but i will teamkill my share of snipers, when im frustrated im the only one playing the objective, and 5 guys sniping in fw. "side note" (not directed at OP, just sayin') using a thales in fw is just asking to be team killed. i secretly cant wait to kill some kid with a thale sniper
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 553	Posted - 2013.12.04 03:16:00 - [27] - Quote pyramidhead 420 wrote: "side note" (not directed at OP, just sayin') using a thales in fw is just asking to be team killed. i secretly cant wait to kill some kid with a thale sniper Fantastic idea! The next forum game to start is posting your weekly hatemail counts. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]


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