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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4109
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make tanking modules that add a flat HP rate cost a fuckton of PG, while not costing a lot of CPU.
Make tanking modules that support the tank, rather than add HP (armor reps, regulators, rechargers, etc') cost medium - high CPU, while not costing a lot of PG.
Make utility modules like kin cats, regulators, dampeners, etc' cost low - medium amounts of CPU and nearly no PG.
Make utility modules like damage mods cost a lot of CPU and medium - low PG.
What this achieves is pushing players to use utility modules, rather than increasing their tank to the max, as their suit would be too limited on PG to use both armor and shield tanking.
A good example is reactive plates.
While their stats suck, but their CPU/PG requirements is how much I think tanking modules should be.
STD: 10/4 CPU/PG
ADV: 24/9 CPU/PG
PRO: 36/16
In comparison to normal armor plates:
STD: 10/1
ADV: 20/6
PRO: 30/12
So in essence, a balanced fit would require a combination of tanking and utility modules, rather than TANKTANKTANKTANKTANK and maybe damage.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4109
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fixed stats, I used stats for ferro plates rather than reactive plates.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4109
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Posted - 2013.11.29 15:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
murrow
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8083
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Posted - 2013.11.29 15:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was getting ready to write something like this, but this was my idea:
Caldari/Minmatar = More CPU less PG
Gallente = More PG less CPU
Amarr = Moderately high CPU/PG
Shield Modules = High CPU, lower PG
Armor Modules = Low CPU, high PG
CPU Enhancers draw PG to add CPU
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4111
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Posted - 2013.11.29 15:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I was getting ready to write something like this, but this was my idea:
Caldari/Minmatar = More CPU less PG
Gallente = More PG less CPU
Amarr = Moderately high CPU/PG
Shield Modules = High CPU, lower PG
Armor Modules = Low CPU, high PG
CPU Enhancers draw PG to add CPU
Could work too.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
700
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 16:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Y E S for diversity!
Make certain mods easier to carry on specific suits. And make it impossible to carry full buffertank.
Thos should be taken into consideration when CCP rework the infantry skill trees (mods&dropsuits). :)
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
143
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Posted - 2013.11.29 17:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
This sort of thing would be greatly improved if Dust took it's cues from EVE: if the suits themselves had bonuses (like how EVE ships have the bonuses, not necessarily the skills) then we could see a suit with bonuses to fitting Shield Extenders, Armour Plates or what have you.
Until Dust decides to do that, we're going to be stuck in a limbo state. |
Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
44
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Posted - 2013.11.29 18:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
My viziam pistol has solved brick tanking issues when their in range quite a few times. Gotta love that crit damage.
Dedicated scout. Because the suit is underpowered. Imagine the good ones when we get buffed people ;)
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8088
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ivy Zalinto wrote:My viziam pistol has solved brick tanking issues when their in range quite a few times. Gotta love that crit damage.
Shhh, you'll get it nerfed.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
51
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote:My viziam pistol has solved brick tanking issues when their in range quite a few times. Gotta love that crit damage. Shhh, you'll get it nerfed.
Honestly pistol seems like the most balanced weapon around currently XD Its really strong...if you hit someones head...and if your within a rather close range exposing you to their weapons optimum range well before you get there.
Dedicated scout.
Caldari loyalist.
Pistol supremacy.
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Cryius Li-Moody
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
27
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
hey cat,
i want to rain on your troll parade  
i have something golden for you.
I'll make love to your cat if its wet
If not make me a sandwich and it better be good and while your at it get me a beer
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4127
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Posted - 2013.11.30 09:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cryius Li-Moody wrote:hey cat, i want to rain on your troll parade i have something golden for you.
Cats?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
201
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Posted - 2013.11.30 19:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
What's wrong with brick tanking?
honestly armor + dmg is more effective
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Even salads taste good deepfried..mmm grease
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
30
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
who said brick tanking was a problem?? the large amounts of armor is how armor balances against shields. shields are OP, or at least they were until the armor was balanced out with it. shields used to be strong, and they would regenerate pretty fast. armor now balances with shields in larger hp amounts. and people who tank their armor prefer more hp over dps. its just another combat style. get over it. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4219
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 20:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
General12912 wrote:who said brick tanking was a problem?? the large amounts of armor is how armor balances against shields. shields are OP, or at least they were until the armor was balanced out with it. shields used to be strong, and they would regenerate pretty fast. armor now balances with shields in larger hp amounts. and people who tank their armor prefer more hp over dps. its just another combat style. get over it.
Brick tanking is using BOTH Armor AND Shields to achieve a fuckton of eHP.
That's the problem.
I'm not talking about armor by itself, anyone who knows me knows that I am one of the biggest advocates to Gallente and Armor tankers on the forum.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8148
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
General12912 wrote:who said brick tanking was a problem?? the large amounts of armor is how armor balances against shields. shields are OP, or at least they were until the armor was balanced out with it. shields used to be strong, and they would regenerate pretty fast. armor now balances with shields in larger hp amounts. and people who tank their armor prefer more hp over dps. its just another combat style. get over it.
This is to promote diverse tanking styles like burst and passive tanking while still keeping brick tanking a viable option and not the only meta.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
150
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Posted - 2013.12.02 00:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
General12912 wrote:who said brick tanking was a problem?? the large amounts of armor is how armor balances against shields. shields are OP, or at least they were until the armor was balanced out with it. shields used to be strong, and they would regenerate pretty fast. armor now balances with shields in larger hp amounts. and people who tank their armor prefer more hp over dps. its just another combat style. get over it.
Its a problem because right now its so much stronger than any non-bricked setup. That forces everyone to brick tank to keep on the same playing field. That in turn kills every single non-bricked fit. So much potential diversity is lost because of this
Cat Merc wrote: Make tanking modules that add a flat HP rate cost a fuckton of PG, while not costing a lot of CPU.
Make tanking modules that support the tank, rather than add HP (armor reps, regulators, rechargers, etc') cost medium - high CPU, while not costing a lot of PG.
Make utility modules like kin cats, regulators, dampeners, etc' cost low - medium amounts of CPU and nearly no PG.
Make utility modules like damage mods cost a lot of CPU and medium - low PG.
I looked at what EVE did to see if any insight could be gleaned on this problem. Besides for finding that DUST has CPU / PG values backwards (ships have more pg than cpu  ) I noticed a lot of subtle differences, which honestly we should just follow.
- Utility modules, this includes everything from damage mods to scanning to reds. These have various cpu costs and no pg costs. The reason for doing this is because it means you have only a single variable you need to balance. Trying to balance multiple variables is much more difficult and is a prime cause for poor balance.
- Tanking fitting costs. Shield tanking should be more cpu intensive, armor tanking should be more pg intensive.
- Shield tanking suits should have more cpu than armor tanking suits. Armor tanking suits should have more pg than shield tanking suits. This is not the case right now
Just from this change, the suits themselves will encourage people to tank them as designed. Shield suits would run up against pg limitations trying to armor tank them, while armor suits would run up against cpu limitations trying to shield tank. It would not be impossible to brick tank, but it would be harder than it is now
So @op, i agree that tanking modules should be more expensive, utility modules less expensive. I just think we need to shift the fitting costs around by tank type to encourage only tanking one type, and not 'encourage' it by making it impossible with large numbers.
tldr - do what EVE did because it works...
EVE - Victor Maximus
DUST - Azri Sarum
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