DUST Search - Resistance Plates for Dropsuits

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

I feel that resistance plates would finally be the module that brings armor tanking on par with shield tanking.

EM Resistant - Would be resistant against shield focused weapons (Amarr weapons and Gallente weapons)

Thermal Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that deal thermal damage. So far I do not think any weapons deal thermal damage in DUST, but they could be arriving in the future.

Kinetic Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that do kinetic damage (Minmatar weapons and Caldari weapons)

Explosive Resistant - Would finally protect your ass from the Mass Driver and Grenade spam

If these are ever implemented, at long last we would see armor tanking as being a viable tanking method for players. Unfortunately brick tanking (simply stacking a ton of armor plates) is not truly viable. Brick tanking slows one down too much due to their speed penalties, and does not protect the user from any specific damage type. Rep tanking is also not viable in DUST unless you're a logi. With the built in complex repair module in a logi suit, only then can you get usable repair values on a dropsuit. A logi running complex repair modules can get in the 20's of HP/S armor regen. On an assault suit the most you can get is around 5 - 15 HP/S and that is by sacrificing plates.

If resistance plates are brought into fruition, I feel that armor tanking will finally enter a golden era.

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Aisha Ctarl 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 1826	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:42:00 - [1] - Quote I feel that resistance plates would finally be the module that brings armor tanking on par with shield tanking. EM Resistant - Would be resistant against shield focused weapons (Amarr weapons and Gallente weapons) Thermal Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that deal thermal damage. So far I do not think any weapons deal thermal damage in DUST, but they could be arriving in the future. Kinetic Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that do kinetic damage (Minmatar weapons and Caldari weapons) Explosive Resistant - Would finally protect your ass from the Mass Driver and Grenade spam If these are ever implemented, at long last we would see armor tanking as being a viable tanking method for players. Unfortunately brick tanking (simply stacking a ton of armor plates) is not truly viable. Brick tanking slows one down too much due to their speed penalties, and does not protect the user from any specific damage type. Rep tanking is also not viable in DUST unless you're a logi. With the built in complex repair module in a logi suit, only then can you get usable repair values on a dropsuit. A logi running complex repair modules can get in the 20's of HP/S armor regen. On an assault suit the most you can get is around 5 - 15 HP/S and that is by sacrificing plates. If resistance plates are brought into fruition, I feel that armor tanking will finally enter a golden era. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
George Moros Area 514 194	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:29:00 - [2] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I feel that resistance plates would finally be the module that brings armor tanking on par with shield tanking. EM Resistant - Would be resistant against shield focused weapons (Amarr weapons and Gallente weapons) Thermal Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that deal thermal damage. So far I do not think any weapons deal thermal damage in DUST, but they could be arriving in the future. Kinetic Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that do kinetic damage (Minmatar weapons and Caldari weapons) Explosive Resistant - Would finally protect your ass from the Mass Driver and Grenade spam If these are ever implemented, at long last we would see armor tanking as being a viable tanking method for players. Unfortunately brick tanking (simply stacking a ton of armor plates) is not truly viable. Brick tanking slows one down too much due to their speed penalties, and does not protect the user from any specific damage type. Rep tanking is also not viable in DUST unless you're a logi. With the built in complex repair module in a logi suit, only then can you get usable repair values on a dropsuit. A logi running complex repair modules can get in the 20's of HP/S armor regen. On an assault suit the most you can get is around 5 - 15 HP/S and that is by sacrificing plates. If resistance plates are brought into fruition, I feel that armor tanking will finally enter a golden era. I don't think CCP plans to further complicate game mechanics by introducing 4 different types of damage, and their according damage resistances, like EVE has. This is a shooter after all. On the other hand, I think it would be cool to have, for example, a module that makes shield less vulnerable to lasers, and a module that makes armor less vulnerable to explosive damage. This would spice up dropsuit fitting options, without complicating things too much. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 154	Posted - 2013.11.25 20:27:00 - [3] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I feel that resistance plates would finally be the module that brings armor tanking on par with shield tanking. EM Resistant - Would be resistant against shield focused weapons (Amarr weapons and Gallente weapons) Thermal Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that deal thermal damage. So far I do not think any weapons deal thermal damage in DUST, but they could be arriving in the future. Kinetic Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that do kinetic damage (Minmatar weapons and Caldari weapons) Explosive Resistant - Would finally protect your ass from the Mass Driver and Grenade spam If these are ever implemented, at long last we would see armor tanking as being a viable tanking method for players. Unfortunately brick tanking (simply stacking a ton of armor plates) is not truly viable. Brick tanking slows one down too much due to their speed penalties, and does not protect the user from any specific damage type. Rep tanking is also not viable in DUST unless you're a logi. With the built in complex repair module in a logi suit, only then can you get usable repair values on a dropsuit. A logi running complex repair modules can get in the 20's of HP/S armor regen. On an assault suit the most you can get is around 5 - 15 HP/S and that is by sacrificing plates. If resistance plates are brought into fruition, I feel that armor tanking will finally enter a golden era. With my Logi Amarr to be 20hp/S i need at least 2 Complex. And after 2 complex i don't have enough PG to fit good plates so what the point bout great repair if you have nothing to repair ? So yes repair tanking is not viable. But It's like Eve universe Self repair is low.
DeadlyAztec11 2258	Posted - 2013.11.25 21:00:00 - [4] - Quote Sounds good. But let's not even think about adding these until there are more weapon types, or else, People are going to be even more OP than they are now. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1677	Posted - 2013.11.25 21:11:00 - [5] - Quote Resistances? Sure. But, let's keep it simple. Just have it reduce damage x percent in general. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
GENERAL FCF Sentinels of New Eden 18	Posted - 2013.11.25 22:36:00 - [6] - Quote I like this topic! We need armor hardeners and shield hardeners. Adding armor hardeners should cause ZERO movement penalties to prevent fast moving shield stompers. Also a slight buff to the shield extender HP like: 30hp per level. Shield regenerators need a bigger buff of 15% per level. They kinda suck right now. But that's what I and maybe we, are hoping for CCP:) Everyone have a great day! - CEO GENERAL FCF
Agmundr Mckayne Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:03:00 - [7] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I feel that resistance plates would finally be the module that brings armor tanking on par with shield tanking. EM Resistant - Would be resistant against shield focused weapons (Amarr weapons and Gallente weapons) Thermal Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that deal thermal damage. So far I do not think any weapons deal thermal damage in DUST, but they could be arriving in the future. Kinetic Resistant - Would be resistant against weapons that do kinetic damage (Minmatar weapons and Caldari weapons) Explosive Resistant - Would finally protect your ass from the Mass Driver and Grenade spam If these are ever implemented, at long last we would see armor tanking as being a viable tanking method for players. Unfortunately brick tanking (simply stacking a ton of armor plates) is not truly viable. Brick tanking slows one down too much due to their speed penalties, and does not protect the user from any specific damage type. Rep tanking is also not viable in DUST unless you're a logi. With the built in complex repair module in a logi suit, only then can you get usable repair values on a dropsuit. A logi running complex repair modules can get in the 20's of HP/S armor regen. On an assault suit the most you can get is around 5 - 15 HP/S and that is by sacrificing plates. If resistance plates are brought into fruition, I feel that armor tanking will finally enter a golden era. as far as weapon damage types go Lasers: EM/Thermal Hybrid: Thermal/Kinetic blasters doing more thermal than kinetic and rails doing more kinetic. Projectile: explosive/kinetic + whatever type the shell uses. Missiles: depends on the missile but usually explosive and kinetic. shields usually have no resistance to EM and low Thermal. Medium kinetic resists and high explosive resistance armor has HIGH em resists, medium thermal, low kinetic and low explosive resists.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5405	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:07:00 - [8] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I feel that resistance plates would finally be the module that brings armor tanking on par with shield tanking. -snip rainbows- If these are ever implemented, at long last we would see armor tanking as being a viable tanking method for players. Unfortunately brick tanking (simply stacking a ton of armor plates) is not truly viable. Brick tanking slows one down too much due to their speed penalties, and does not protect the user from any specific damage type. Rep tanking is also not viable in DUST unless you're a logi. With the built in complex repair module in a logi suit, only then can you get usable repair values on a dropsuit. A logi running complex repair modules can get in the 20's of HP/S armor regen. On an assault suit the most you can get is around 5 - 15 HP/S and that is by sacrificing plates. If resistance plates are brought into fruition, I feel that armor tanking will finally enter a golden era. A few things. Firstly, on your resistances: Lasers (Amarr) do EM and thermal damage. Plasma (Gallente) does thermal and kinetic damage, weighted towards thermal - thus they are anti-shields. Railguns (Caldari) do kinetic and thermal damage, weighted towards kinetic - thus they are anti-armour. Projectiles (Minmatar) do kinetic and explosive damage. Explosives, obviously, do explosive damage. Most weapons don't do just one form of damage - fitting a specific EM hardener, for example, wouldn't protect at all against plasma, railguns, projectiles, and explosives, and would only partially protect against part of lasers. Having element specific resistance plates tends to become rather complex in a system like this. This works in EVE (although general resistance modules are used far more often in PvP and specific resistances are only often used in PvE) as most ships have a large number of slots. In Dust, you don't have that number of slots. As an example, in EVE, you do not fit a Punisher with a specific resistance plate unless you're doing something really specific or you're mad. That ship has a similar number of slots to a proto dropsuit in Dust - we simply don't have the slot count to make specific resistance modules work, even if they were in high slots. So I think general resistances, whilst perhaps being more boring, would be better. That way they're not too specific and are likely to see some use. Now, as for armour vs shields... I think that much of the balance at the moment depends on the suit. I'm relatively certain you use the Amarr - I feel that because of the need for some form of repair, whatever you fit with three low slots is going to be less than ideal. The only suits I've ever felt that armour shines on are logis, which have the innate 5 HP/s (plus the equipment, but that's another story). One of the things I've always wanted to do is axe the 5 HP/s on logis and put innate repairs on suits - 5 HP/s Gallente, 3 HP/s Amarr, 1 HP/s Minmatar, 0 HP/s Caldari, for example. That way it's not an absolute necessity to fit a repairer, which typically gibs your tank, but it gives you the option of using one to augment/vastly increase your innate repair. That way they still remain useful, some logi power is reduced, and some fitting versatility is opened up to both armour and shield tankers as you're not absolutely forced to use a rep. This is just a random thing I've wanted though and I'm not sure it's balanced. Let's consider the current state of armour and shields - assume 4 slots for tank in each case. There are scaling problems with the shield extenders and with armour repair, and of course I've mentioned suit imbalances, so this isn't a brilliant comparison, but let's go with it anyway - in terms of raw modules, it's okay. 2x complex plates, 2x complex armour repairers = 288 armour HP, 12.5 HP/s constant regen. Speed penalty. 4x complex shield extenders = 290 shield HP, varying from 20-31.25 HP/s regen with a delay. No speed penalty. On paper, that looks about equal, perhaps with a slight advantage towards shields. However, armour gets more team support options, so I think it evens out a bit. Of course, that's just looking at a few surface details. Complex plates -and- complex reppers end up being ridiculously hard to fit because unlike shields you can't use fitting mods and the only mods you can realistically use are all fittings heavy. The speed penalty is significant when stacking plates, the SP investment for multiple tanking modules is greater, it doesn't scale as well using complex modules on lower tiered suits because you need a baseline rep. Shields have the option of using all of their main slots to augment their tank, armour does not. I've gone through all this before - if you're interested in reading about this stuff some more, there's a link in my signature that may be on interest to you. This post might be a little confusing (I'm trying to convince myself as well as talk about this, sorry) but I think there's room for a module in the highslot which is relatively light on fitting and increases general armour resistance. Not by too much, but by a bit. I would suggest tweaking reactive plates, seeing as they're completely overshadowed by plate/rep combos in every meaningful way apart from maybe on the lowest tier Amarr assault, and always will be with their stat allocation. In conclusion, I support this idea, but shield/armour is very much affected by the dropsuit choice, and existing imbalances between dropsuits muddy the water a bit. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 156	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:42:00 - [9] - Quote Why not just shieild resistance and armor resistance Like the vehicle ones Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Free tacos
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5420	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:46:00 - [10] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Why not just shieild resistance and armor resistance Like the vehicle ones I think Aisha is more interested in these modules as a mechanic for armour vs shield balance. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.

Aisha Ctarl 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 1844	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:00:00 - [11] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Why not just shieild resistance and armor resistance Like the vehicle ones I think Aisha is more interested in these modules as a mechanic for armour vs shield balance. Pretty much this. Shields already have regulators and rechargers and energizers. Armor has plates, ferroscale plates which have ** poor armor values, and reactive plates which have ** poor armor values and do a laughable amount of repairing on their own coupled with high fitting cost. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5421	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:15:00 - [12] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Why not just shieild resistance and armor resistance Like the vehicle ones I think Aisha is more interested in these modules as a mechanic for armour vs shield balance. Pretty much this. Shields already have regulators and rechargers and energizers. Armor has plates, ferroscale plates which have ** poor armor values, and reactive plates which have ** poor armor values and do a laughable amount of repairing on their own coupled with high fitting cost. Thoughts on that longer reply? Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.


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