DUST Search - Class Role Bonuses Discussion

Absoliav wrote:

The Robot Devil wrote:

Standard suits each need a level based bonus, advanced need two level based bonuses and proto would get two level based and a static. Standard assault bonuses could be based on racial defense with advanced being racial defense and racial weapons. The proto type would add a final static that truly defines how the suit is supposed to be used. This would also allow them to add different suits to the lineup by only changing the bonus.

The standard Gal suit could have a 2% per level armor rep bonus from Gal medium and the advanced would have the same bonus plus a 5% per level to effective range for blasters or rails. The proto would offer these two bonuses plus a static bonus of 10% for reload. Change the name of the suit and any one of the bonuses and suit would be different.

Scouts would have the same setup but geared toward scout roles and strengths. A maxed skilled merc in a standard suit would be well equipped. Perfect skills in one branch of the weapon tree and all core skills do mean something. We should give bonuses to suits that encourage specialization. A suit's bonus should be the reason to wear the suit and each suit should do its job well and not much else.

So you're saying to add bonuses to the suits as well as the skill, I really like that idea, it adds more character to the races and roles, I would strongly support this if it's done right, and by right, I mean it should show no bias towards one suit and only one style of play.

Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.

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Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.11.23 06:53:00 - [1] - Quote I've started this thread to talk about the role bonuses, primarily the ones that are preforming poorlyl. I'd like to come up with more ways to diversify suit roles by giving them more role bonuses to match their suit's intended class role, without nerfing/over-lapping other roles. I think the best way to achieve this is to give at least 3 bonuses to each role skill that favors all dropsuits of the intended role, as the current setup favors some suits more than others and for a few it dosen't benefit them at all due to suit limitations, making a select few more viable for it's intended field, best example being the Assaults. The Assault bonus is extremely limited in build design, strongly favoring the Cal suit more than any other while offering insignificant gains for Min and Cal. While Logis get a bonus that helps them survive to help make up for their suits lack of self native protection, without favoring any of the suits, but it doesn't offer anything on a logistical scale, it also doesn't complement any of the logi suit's stats, and provides no incentive/benefit to using logis for team other than WP farming. Since we only have one Sentinel, we don't much about the role they are expected to play on the battlefield, but we do have two of the heavy weapons exclusive to their role it's not hard to see that unless the're 3 or 4 more heavy weapons the have feedback damage one can easily see the Sen bonus isn't going to be very useful. So, my solution is simple, with more skill bonuses added to the class roles, it would encourage more build diversity and ensure that one role cannot easily surpass another in it's intended field, while also giving benefits that that help all suits equally in it's role, example: Assault +5% to stamina, +3% to light/sidearm weapon maximum ammunition capacity, +5% reduction to reload speed of light/sidearm weapons per level. With a boon like this would make Assault more desired towards well... assaulting, and it's none bias towards any suits, multiple stat buffs from the role skills would also promote more suit fitting diversity, while also giving suits a more define role on the field. What do you guys think, good, bad, should things stay the same, should CCP just change the one bonus we get per role, I really want to know what you guys think would be a solution to Logis being better Assaults, or Assaults being better Scouts? Please try to refrain from just answering with a nerf.
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 259	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:46:00 - [2] - Quote I'd love a heavy laser so my sentinel bonus is even relevant. Barring that, I'd propose a resistance to small arms fire. How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1262	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:17:00 - [3] - Quote Standard suits each need a level based bonus, advanced need two level based bonuses and proto would get two level based and a static. Standard assault bonuses could be based on racial defense with advanced being racial defense and racial weapons. The proto type would add a final static that truly defines how the suit is supposed to be used. This would also allow them to add different suits to the lineup by only changing the bonus. The standard Gal suit could have a 2% per level armor rep bonus from Gal medium and the advanced would have the same bonus plus a 5% per level to effective range for blasters or rails. The proto would offer these two bonuses plus a static bonus of 10% for reload. Change the name of the suit and any one of the bonuses and suit would be different. Scouts would have the same setup but geared toward scout roles and strengths. A maxed skilled merc in a standard suit would be well equipped. Perfect skills in one branch of the weapon tree and all core skills do mean something. We should give bonuses to suits that encourage specialization. A suit's bonus should be the reason to wear the suit and each suit should do its job well and not much else. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 664	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:28:00 - [4] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Standard suits each need a level based bonus, advanced need two level based bonuses and proto would get two level based and a static. Standard assault bonuses could be based on racial defense with advanced being racial defense and racial weapons. The proto type would add a final static that truly defines how the suit is supposed to be used. This would also allow them to add different suits to the lineup by only changing the bonus. The standard Gal suit could have a 2% per level armor rep bonus from Gal medium and the advanced would have the same bonus plus a 5% per level to effective range for blasters or rails. The proto would offer these two bonuses plus a static bonus of 10% for reload. Change the name of the suit and any one of the bonuses and suit would be different. Scouts would have the same setup but geared toward scout roles and strengths. A maxed skilled merc in a standard suit would be well equipped. Perfect skills in one branch of the weapon tree and all core skills do mean something. We should give bonuses to suits that encourage specialization. A suit's bonus should be the reason to wear the suit and each suit should do its job well and not much else. "but geared toward scout roles and strengths" Just wondering what your opinion that role would be. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 145	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:34:00 - [5] - Quote I think some change on the skill tree / suit bonuses would be a good thing if done right (balanced). It could also help CCP express what roles they think a particular suit should be able to fulfil. Right now it seems some of the suit descriptions are a little off, and some of the bonuses seem to make no sense to us at all. Supporting more variations on how we fit our mercs would be a good thing.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1262	Posted - 2013.11.23 09:05:00 - [6] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Standard suits each need a level based bonus, advanced need two level based bonuses and proto would get two level based and a static. Standard assault bonuses could be based on racial defense with advanced being racial defense and racial weapons. The proto type would add a final static that truly defines how the suit is supposed to be used. This would also allow them to add different suits to the lineup by only changing the bonus. The standard Gal suit could have a 2% per level armor rep bonus from Gal medium and the advanced would have the same bonus plus a 5% per level to effective range for blasters or rails. The proto would offer these two bonuses plus a static bonus of 10% for reload. Change the name of the suit and any one of the bonuses and suit would be different. Scouts would have the same setup but geared toward scout roles and strengths. A maxed skilled merc in a standard suit would be well equipped. Perfect skills in one branch of the weapon tree and all core skills do mean something. We should give bonuses to suits that encourage specialization. A suit's bonus should be the reason to wear the suit and each suit should do its job well and not much else. "but geared toward scout roles and strengths" Just wondering what your opinion that role would be. Speed, stamina, regen for stamina, scanning bonuses both for and against, hacking and equipment deployment. Pick one of those for standard, advanced would add a weapon specific bonus and the the proto would give the third bonus to one scout centric role. A decked out scout should be dangerous and specialized. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 371	Posted - 2013.11.23 12:42:00 - [7] - Quote I like these ideas and do believe there needs to be some reworking of all suit bonuses. At the moment the only benefit of a higher tier suit is extra cpu and pg. So as it stands I just max out a role and run the STD (sometimes advanced) version with maxed skill bonus - cheap and efficient. Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó Meta Gaming V > Proficiency I
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.11.23 15:03:00 - [8] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Standard suits each need a level based bonus, advanced need two level based bonuses and proto would get two level based and a static. Standard assault bonuses could be based on racial defense with advanced being racial defense and racial weapons. The proto type would add a final static that truly defines how the suit is supposed to be used. This would also allow them to add different suits to the lineup by only changing the bonus. The standard Gal suit could have a 2% per level armor rep bonus from Gal medium and the advanced would have the same bonus plus a 5% per level to effective range for blasters or rails. The proto would offer these two bonuses plus a static bonus of 10% for reload. Change the name of the suit and any one of the bonuses and suit would be different. Scouts would have the same setup but geared toward scout roles and strengths. A maxed skilled merc in a standard suit would be well equipped. Perfect skills in one branch of the weapon tree and all core skills do mean something. We should give bonuses to suits that encourage specialization. A suit's bonus should be the reason to wear the suit and each suit should do its job well and not much else. So you're saying to add bonuses to the suits as well as the skill, I really like that idea, it adds more character to the races and roles, I would strongly support this if it's done right, and by right, I mean it should show no bias towards one suit and only one style of play.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1263	Posted - 2013.11.23 17:03:00 - [9] - Quote Absoliav wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Standard suits each need a level based bonus, advanced need two level based bonuses and proto would get two level based and a static. Standard assault bonuses could be based on racial defense with advanced being racial defense and racial weapons. The proto type would add a final static that truly defines how the suit is supposed to be used. This would also allow them to add different suits to the lineup by only changing the bonus. The standard Gal suit could have a 2% per level armor rep bonus from Gal medium and the advanced would have the same bonus plus a 5% per level to effective range for blasters or rails. The proto would offer these two bonuses plus a static bonus of 10% for reload. Change the name of the suit and any one of the bonuses and suit would be different. Scouts would have the same setup but geared toward scout roles and strengths. A maxed skilled merc in a standard suit would be well equipped. Perfect skills in one branch of the weapon tree and all core skills do mean something. We should give bonuses to suits that encourage specialization. A suit's bonus should be the reason to wear the suit and each suit should do its job well and not much else. So you're saying to add bonuses to the suits as well as the skill, I really like that idea, it adds more character to the races and roles, I would strongly support this if it's done right, and by right, I mean it should show no bias towards one suit and only one style of play. Yes. This is one thing they did 100% correct in the EVE ship tree. Each ship feels different because of slot layout and the bonus given. I do think that is one thing that should directly carry over. Proto Scout that could use covert uplink is black ops but one with a nice weapon bonus would be called a force recon. The only difference in the suit is the name, bonus and maybe the artwork, just by changing the bonuses we would expand our suit roles and add more specialization to the tree. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 206	Posted - 2013.11.23 17:16:00 - [10] - Quote CCP have already said that suit bonus will get sorted but currently they cant make the suit bonus different due to the way the item table works (lazy coding basically) thats why all assaults have shield regen and all logis have 1hps and so on. They haven't said when these will get sorted but i would expect earliest to be April/May 2014 when the Easter patch should deploy, if we get all the racial suits that is.

The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1264	Posted - 2013.11.23 18:26:00 - [11] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP have already said that suit bonus will get sorted but currently they cant make the suit bonus different due to the way the item table works (lazy coding basically) thats why all assaults have shield regen and all logis have 1hps and so on. They haven't said when these will get sorted but i would expect earliest to be April/May 2014 when the Easter patch should deploy, if we get all the racial suits that is. Seems like they would have made the code easier to change. I am not a programmer so my opinion doesn't count because I don't actually know how hard that would have been. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:50:00 - [12] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP have already said that suit bonus will get sorted but currently they cant make the suit bonus different due to the way the item table works (lazy coding basically) thats why all assaults have shield regen and all logis have 1hps and so on. They haven't said when these will get sorted but i would expect earliest to be April/May 2014 when the Easter patch should deploy, if we get all the racial suits that is. I am aware of the promise that was made about suit bonuses, but that was in response to the Cal Logi issue, back when it was the best suit for everything, they said they are looking into finding more ways to make logi suits have better advantages in certain areas of the battlefield that fits their theme/role in the game and they said that the only thing preventing them was complicated coding that would involve several of the game's mechanics so Logis can make better use of things such as equipment. What I'm referring to doesn't really require many changes be made to the current setup, these are basic level changes for CCP, the most difficult thing would be balancing the the skills/suits, it's the same the thing they didn't to the Cal Assault, when they change it's bonus to shield hardeners, no extra layer of code would need to be made, they would just to use what they already have developed, the only really concern would be balancing and future proofing for later patches.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:00:00 - [13] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP have already said that suit bonus will get sorted but currently they cant make the suit bonus different due to the way the item table works (lazy coding basically) thats why all assaults have shield regen and all logis have 1hps and so on. They haven't said when these will get sorted but i would expect earliest to be April/May 2014 when the Easter patch should deploy, if we get all the racial suits that is. Seems like they would have made the code easier to change. I am not a programmer so my opinion doesn't count because I don't actually know how hard that would have been. In the game development industry this tends to happen when there is a shift in game design logic/development, what tends to happen is that the programmers build the game build the base materials for the game according to the design plan put in front of them, like a construction worker, once they start building it a certain way it's hard to go back and make changes, while it's a lot easier to just build on top of what you already have. Dust has gone through many changes since it's inception and with these changes came design logic, these kind of problems always turn up in games that are constantly changing, EVE is one of the best examples of this.


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