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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
91
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Posted - 2013.11.21 20:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
First, I would recommend reading the 2 links beelow in order before proceeding. 1 philosophy of Ghost In The Shell resides within the name itself, that a soul or "ghost" can link &/or adapt to a new form that may not be the exact original form but is still the same individual orginal, despite the new form.
Thus no matter what new form you are as, since you are the orignal nesting within a new form the soul shall follow & link to you. Perhaps even bringing the original & the soul or "ghost" closer together then before. Quite simply you are you no matter what form.
I would like to discuss the philosopical relation between EVE's clones & capsulers to Ghost In The Shell's cyborgs & augmenteded humans.
The Links
http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/ppcc-part-1-the-capsule-and-the-clone/
http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/cloning/
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4211
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not the place for this. Not RP.
But I am always interesting in discussion the developing nature or nature of the soul.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
92
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Posted - 2013.11.22 20:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
RP? Role-Play? |
Demel Derpovsky
Derringer Defenses
27
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Posted - 2013.11.23 07:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Not the place for this. Not RP.
But I am always interesting in discussion the developing nature or nature of the soul.
Yeah..technically this is just a general discussion and not a fan-fiction or dust 514 fiction related stuff...- BUT it is a good idea and CCP probably got ideas from that as well as that other movie Arnold Schwarzenegger was in where people cloned themselves and what not.
Sorry, but ccplogibro's gona have to move it. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
97
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Perhaps but it is still a good topic & you can see similar philosophy here & thought-lines |
Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
88
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Demel Derpovsky wrote:True Adamance wrote:Not the place for this. Not RP.
But I am always interesting in discussion the developing nature or nature of the soul. Yeah..technically this is just a general discussion and not a fan-fiction or dust 514 fiction related stuff...- BUT it is a good idea and CCP probably got ideas from that as well as that other movie Arnold Schwarzenegger was in where people cloned themselves and what not. Sorry, but ccplogibro's gona have to move it.
Why? It is discussing the lore about the philosophy between the cyborgs in GOTS and EvE clones . Since this is a place discussion of the story of DUST 514, as well as posting of any fan fiction, or discussion about role playing in DUST 514 ;said in the pinned thread. And that Eve online's story and Dust 514's are in the same universe I'm pretty sure he can talk about the philosophical differences between the two franchises , since it is still in the discussion of the lore of Dust. |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
647
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Avinash Decker wrote:Why? It is discussing the lore about the philosophy between the cyborgs in GOTS and EvE clones . Since this is a place discussion of the story of DUST 514, as well as posting of any fan fiction, or discussion about role playing in DUST 514 ;said in the pinned thread. And that Eve online's story and Dust 514's are in the same universe I'm pretty sure he can talk about the philosophical differences between the two franchises , since it is still in the discussion of the lore of Dust.
This thread was originally in Intergalactic Summit, those comments were made there before this thread was moved to the appropriate section.
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 24/11/13
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Preacher Death 2
Lockheed Dynamics
62
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
A spirit that follows form is just a bit to happy for this kind of game.
I've always seen clones as just a copy of a dead original. Same thing with teleportation. No Scotty, I think i'll walk rather than risk not being the one to come out the other end. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Preacher Death 2 wrote:A spirit that follows form is just a bit to happy for this kind of game.
I've always seen clones as just a copy of a dead original. Same thing with teleportation. No Scotty, I think i'll walk rather than risk not being the one to come out the other end.
The cyborgs in GITS had the brain of the first human original but are simply in a new body so it makes since that the original's brain is the anchor for the soul. GITS even has a episode discussing clones & that they (in the GITS) universe believe clones are a different individual despite being the same.
Clone mercenaries do not have the original's brain, they're entire body is made from Biomass but many clones state upon revival that they have the feeling of "One's own memories coming back" are they clones, perfect replica's or perhaps still the original in a new way.
They say conciousness is transferred at the moment of death (how that is done is explained in the Links) but conciousness in this case perhaps conciousness is the Anchor for the soul instead of the original's brain since the conciousness is basically what the brain does anyway & it is the conciousness of the original & the means of transfer is of little to no importance.
I'm sure The Amarr belief in the "Sacred Flesh" would have alot to say about this particular line of thinking
A relative quote for this is "I think, therefore I am" this quote came when a philosopher/scientist decided to look into the soul, proof exsisitance & so forth. He began this quick test by imagining himself as a ghost, a being without form which was easy. He then try imagining himself without thought of imagination or anything to which he found to be impossible. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Then theirs Star Wars, (oh yes I went their XD) in the cartoon version Yoda stops to talk with the 4 or 3 clones with him. He tells them to take off they're helmets, The Captain of the clones reply "Not much to see here sir, we all have the same face" to which Yoda replies in his normal fashion of tone "No eyes deceive you they do, each of you are very different" - from their he goes on to explain the difference of individuality between the 3 or 4 of them.
These clones are very much different then Dust 514's clones. |
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.11.28 19:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
The mind is the medium for the conciousness & conciousness is the anchor for the soul.
This line of discussion goes all the way back to the creation of every person or perhaps somewhat to God's itself own creation. The Soul is created - Conciousness is formed - The Brain becomes the medium for the consiousness.
This would explain why some say to themselves "I was born at the wrong time" or "I was born with the wrong family" these statements imply that we believe we were around before being born physically that is because we were.
When one dies the original form/brain is lost leaving no medium for conciousness to remain - the conciousness leaves the medium at this moment I believe the conciousness is scanned or merged with by the soul thus we become the soul & the soul after doing so goes on to do it's job going to Heaven or Purgatory or whatever 1 may believe.
This would explain why people report "out of body" experiences upon temporarily dieing....
Consider the brain as nothing but another body part or muscle like your arm or heart for example, except it's soul purpose is to medium for the conciousness.
So long as conciousness can be held to a appriate medium of any sort, 'you', your conciousness & you soul will remain connected this realm preventing the need for the soul to merge or scan the conciousness to move on.
GITS & Dust 514 preform 2 different ways of creating & maintaining a medium for conciousness. GITS simply uses the original medium, the first brain & puts it in a cyborg body to keep it alive. While Dust 514 creates a entirely new medium & body identical to the original to be the medium for the conciousness to transfer to.
Note: Conciousness is something without form & is not exactly here in our realm &/or physically frame, it is developed every conciousness is unique & different onto itself.... |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.11.28 19:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
On a seperate relative yet equally important note....
We physically & how we work is not so different then perhaps a Robot would.
The iconic question of Robots has always been "Do I have a soul?" it is my belief they do not until they obtain free-will which gives rise to conciousness & thus a soul is made for that being. Without free-will which is so far to our knowledge unique only to mankind, they are nothing but machines.
In due time in evolution we will become cyborgs it is the next step, & the last yet final step in evolution after I believe is a complete merge between Robots with free-will & human cyborgs with free-will giving rise to something perhaps beyond human comprehension.
Western Culture has often made machines look evil to make fast & rich profit. But the truth is we use machines in everything in everyday life.
Take a simple human CEO of say a company like.... Apple. Imagine your the CEO of apple, everyday you will be using a IPAD &/or smart phone, we also rely on surveys too alot which is done by machines & occasionally need a AI like Siere in that 1 phone as well as a home phone answering machine to help you. Now imagine you loose all that information & work to a random accident or natural disaster, what would happen to you then? You wouldn't be able to work very well at all would you? atleast not unless you backed up all the data & you eventually get it restored. This example show how we humans though without artficial limbs or organs are very VERY close to how Robots work no?
To us all these these IPADS & machines are practically our second brain further adding to the arguement that we aren't cyborgs or machines is loosing ground. It is understandable why people are not enitrely with the idea of being a cyborg but it is envitable in evolution & it won't be so bad we under-go change through-out our entire life anyway in many differing ways. That's why it's a matter of degree & how much is changed..... |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.11.28 20:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
We are intelligent life forms due to free-will & all this.
& on another subject we don't like the idea of clones of cophies or identical cophies taking over which is wise as you always want the original.
Cophies do not give rise to varity & orginality & they are more easily destroyable.... |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.11.28 20:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
All this may sound insane though to some, but philosphy is kinda crazy I'm sure i've blew some minds & brought a deeper thought understanding to all this. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.12.01 19:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Anyway have any thoughts? |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
169
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Posted - 2013.12.29 18:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bump for those who haven't seen this yet |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
169
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Posted - 2013.12.29 19:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
This Link is from Ghost In The Shell The movie from the 1995 it's also relative to this. P.S. it is a little.... showy btw fair warning. But it discusses this.
Skip to to 2:16 - ends at 4:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZX58fDhebc |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
175
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Too bad I'm not getting more on this topic XD |
AccursedZero
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
2
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bump |
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