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Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
383
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why not just ask for the equivalent of the blueprint to be placed in your inventory instead. You would still have the militia BPO to use and it would simply be the 1.7 equivalent. A friend of mine who has played EVE has told me that CCP has done it before where they simply replaced BPOs in the inventory with their new equivalent after an update.
Would this satisfy you? Instead of the unnecessary outrage you've been having?
Author of Umbra's Short Stories. Last story posted 11/20/2013.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
3824
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because they want to feel like space lawyers, while failing at reading a document that protects CCP from all of it.
That they signed
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
244
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Because they want to feel like space lawyers, while failing at reading a document that protects CCP from all of it, that they signed
The main problem here is the EULA does not protect CCP as the EULA will always be overruled by local law that make thing even more complicated as everything bought in the UK PSN store falls under UK law, everthing bought in the US store under US law etc...at least to my knowlegde. |
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is a solid idea, even though I'm not particularly fussed about the loss of my two militia BPO's. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
196
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because they want to feel like space lawyers, while failing at reading a document that protects CCP from all of it, that they signed The main problem here is the EULA does not protect CCP as the EULA will always be overruled by local law that make thing even more complicated as everything bought in the UK PSN store falls under UK law, everthing bought in the US store under US law etc...at least to my knowlegde.
and all those places have this little thing where non refundable psudo currencys are legal.
aka NO FUCKIN REFUNDS
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
245
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because they want to feel like space lawyers, while failing at reading a document that protects CCP from all of it, that they signed The main problem here is the EULA does not protect CCP as the EULA will always be overruled by local law that make thing even more complicated as everything bought in the UK PSN store falls under UK law, everthing bought in the US store under US law etc...at least to my knowlegde. and all those places have this little thing where non refundable psudo currencys are legal. aka NO FUCKIN REFUNDS
An ingame Item is rather some sort of elecronic good its not a currency. Its basicly a piece of software I know there are rules to handle electronic goods and you can't simply remove an electronic good without refund.
Just imagine you buy a game online and the publisher denies your access with no alternative just because the publisher or refund...well I really don't care aboout the militia BPO's as there is an easy way for CCP to deal with thoose. They once had an Aurum value and you could by them for that amount of Aurum so the current refund is fine to me.
But nevertheless just because something is statet in the EULA does not make this automatically law safe... |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7863
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
The only part of the veteran pack that made the price even close to worthwhile was the Saga BPO
Removing that removes the point of buying it in the first place.
Mine was bought for me as a gift, so I'm a little less annoyed, but the principle remains.
Read / Vid / Stream
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
196
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because they want to feel like space lawyers, while failing at reading a document that protects CCP from all of it, that they signed The main problem here is the EULA does not protect CCP as the EULA will always be overruled by local law that make thing even more complicated as everything bought in the UK PSN store falls under UK law, everthing bought in the US store under US law etc...at least to my knowlegde. and all those places have this little thing where non refundable psudo currencys are legal. aka NO FUCKIN REFUNDS An ingame Item is rather some sort of elecronic good its not a currency. Its basicly a piece of software I know there are rules to handle electronic goods and you can't simply remove an electronic good without refund. Just imagine you buy a game online and the publisher denies your access with no alternative or refund...well I really don't care aboout the militia BPO's as there is an easy way for CCP to deal with thoose. They once had an Aurum value and you could by them for that amount of Aurum so the current refund is fine to me. But nevertheless just because something is statet in the EULA does not make this automatically law safe...
you bought the currency with your money, not the item.
you bought the item with the non refundable psuydo-currency
buying things with the psudo-currency follows different laws then buying the item with real currency would.
the psudo-currency is subject to countrys laws, the items you buy with said psudocurrency are subject to the terms of teh psudocurrency.
so literally the only recourse you can have is of the sale of AUR itself, not the items you buy with it.
so essentially you would have to argue that it is illegal to sell AUR in your country.
also AUR is sold by sony, not CCP
good luck
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
124
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because they want to feel like space lawyers, while failing at reading a document that protects CCP from all of it, that they signed The main problem here is the EULA does not protect CCP as the EULA will always be overruled by local law that make thing even more complicated as everything bought in the UK PSN store falls under UK law, everthing bought in the US store under US law etc...at least to my knowlegde.
Yes and as such CCP is liable to be sued for breaching consumer rights and business malpractice, not to mention failing to comply with the Sales of Goods Act 1979 which is a criminal offence in the UK.
I can has ISK
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
124
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:This is a solid idea, even though I'm not particularly fussed about the loss of my two militia BPO's.
I'm losing 12 of my 62 BPOs so I'm pretty fuc king pi ssed
I can has ISK
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1505
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The only part of the veteran pack that made the price even close to worthwhile was the Saga BPO
Removing that removes the point of buying it in the first place.
Mine was bought for me as a gift, so I'm a little less annoyed, but the principle remains. Wait, are they removing vehicle BPOs as well as the MLT modules? |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2243
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Why not just ask for the equivalent of the blueprint to be placed in your inventory instead. You would still have the militia BPO to use and it would simply be the 1.7 equivalent. A friend of mine who has played EVE has told me that CCP has done it before where they simply replaced BPOs in the inventory with their new equivalent after an update.
Would this satisfy you? Instead of the unnecessary outrage you've been having?
How is it unecessary outrage? CCP has used an unquestionably underhanded tactic to get what they want, at the expense of many players. I think your suggestion is the only way CCP can redeem themselves, but they're only going to be compelled to do so in the wake of community outcry.
There's some bizarre principle held on these forums, that because CCP has the legal right to do something, they should not be criticised when they do it.
No.
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Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
385
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The only part of the veteran pack that made the price even close to worthwhile was the Saga BPO
Removing that removes the point of buying it in the first place.
Mine was bought for me as a gift, so I'm a little less annoyed, but the principle remains. Wait, are they removing vehicle BPOs as well as the MLT modules? No. Just the MLT modules.
Author of Umbra's Short Stories. Last story posted 11/20/2013.
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Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
385
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Why not just ask for the equivalent of the blueprint to be placed in your inventory instead. You would still have the militia BPO to use and it would simply be the 1.7 equivalent. A friend of mine who has played EVE has told me that CCP has done it before where they simply replaced BPOs in the inventory with their new equivalent after an update.
Would this satisfy you? Instead of the unnecessary outrage you've been having? How is it unecessary outrage? CCP has used an unquestionably underhanded tactic to get what they want, at the expense of many players. I think your suggestion is the only way CCP can redeem themselves, but they're only going to be compelled to do so in the wake of community outcry. There's some bizarre principle held on these forums, that because CCP has the legal right to do something, they should not be criticised when they do it. So... CCP said we're removing BPOs so this is your last change to buy them. A BPO is an item that you only need one of, since it can cover everything its purpose serves without running out. People bought Aurum from the Playstation Store in order to convert it to these items and some bought multiple even though it served absolutely no purpose presently or in the future to obtain multiple of them where one would suffice. CCP removed BPOs from the in-game market stating that there are no plans to remove them from your inventory in the future. This does not mean that they may not be removed in the future, it simply means that no plans currently exist to remove them. CCP plans to make a change to the game that will render the BPO that the items represents completely obsolete and worthless otherwise so CCP says we're going to convert the item back to Aurum for you. CCP did not ask you to buy multiple of them, nor did they say that a change to the game would not require them to be removed.
What I find to be the real problem here is that people are essentially screaming for CCP to not release 1.7 because they will lose the BPOs when in actuality you paid for the Aurum with real money and not the BPO itself. If this issue were related to the Ishukone Watch Saga, Gurista Saga, Toxin ICD-9 SMG or any item that was purchased in the pack itself as opposed to buying Aurum and then using the Aurum to get the weapon, I would be concerned as it was the item in the pack that you were promised and not the Aurum to obtain an item in the game.
Author of Umbra's Short Stories. Last story posted 11/20/2013.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7863
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The only part of the veteran pack that made the price even close to worthwhile was the Saga BPO
Removing that removes the point of buying it in the first place.
Mine was bought for me as a gift, so I'm a little less annoyed, but the principle remains. Wait, are they removing vehicle BPOs as well as the MLT modules? I hope not, but I don't know. Everyone's freaking out and CCP hasn't exactly been clear on what they're doing. And just because the BPO stays in with 1.7 doesn't mean it stays forever since CCP very obviously wants to phase out all the BPOs as time goes on.
Read / Vid / Stream
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Fargen Icehole
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
143
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Posted - 2013.11.21 16:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Generally speaking, (using my vast knowledge of having taken a couple BLAW classes in college )
In the US, all contracts are bound by what is referred to as "good faith". The reason I bring this up, is because while Aurum is used to purchase BPOs, real $ is used to purchase the Aurum. The ONLY reason to purchase Aurum, is to then in turn, purchase virtual goods. If the sole reason for a customer who was purchasing Aurum was in order to buy BPOs that are being taken off the market, that customer has a legitimate argument to then get their REAL money refunded. (if customer wishes to) This is under the idea that customer purchased Aurum in good faith, with the belief that they were purchasing virtual goods that they would permanently own. (BPOs) If BPOs are taken away, a refunding of Aurum is insufficient compensation, because the sole reason customer purchased Aurum, was in order to acquire ownership of BPOs.
Not saying I'm right, but this would very likely be an argument that could be used. (that's all attorneys really do in court, it's argue for/against different sides, while INTERPRETING written laws in a way that favors their side. The winner is just who puts up a more valid argument) |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
196
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Posted - 2013.11.21 16:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fargen Icehole wrote:Generally speaking, (using my vast knowledge of having taken a couple BLAW classes in college ) In the US, all contracts are bound by what is referred to as "good faith". The reason I bring this up, is because while Aurum is used to purchase BPOs, real $ is used to purchase the Aurum. The ONLY reason to purchase Aurum, is to then in turn, purchase virtual goods. If the sole reason for a customer who was purchasing Aurum was in order to buy BPOs that are being taken off the market, that customer has a legitimate argument to then get their REAL money refunded. (if customer wishes to) This is under the idea that customer purchased Aurum in good faith, with the belief that they were purchasing virtual goods that they would permanently own. (BPOs) If BPOs are taken away, a refunding of Aurum is insufficient compensation, because the sole reason customer purchased Aurum, was in order to acquire ownership of BPOs. Not saying I'm right, but this would very likely be an argument that could be used. (that's all attorneys really do in court, it's argue for/against different sides, while INTERPRETING written laws in a way that favors their side. The winner is just who puts up a more valid argument)
if by real money you mean PSN credit then you may be right.
remember, all AUR is purchased with PSN credit, not real world denominations.
getting sony to refund PSN credit to USD would be alot more difficult then getting PSN credit in the first place.
and BOTH currencys are guarded with the whole no refunds thing :P
put up a big enough stink, spend enough money on the project, you MAY get your AUR refunded all the way back to USD, but it serves no purpose. and may cause your dust or psn accounts to be forfit in the process. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2251
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Why not just ask for the equivalent of the blueprint to be placed in your inventory instead. You would still have the militia BPO to use and it would simply be the 1.7 equivalent. A friend of mine who has played EVE has told me that CCP has done it before where they simply replaced BPOs in the inventory with their new equivalent after an update.
Would this satisfy you? Instead of the unnecessary outrage you've been having? How is it unecessary outrage? CCP has used an unquestionably underhanded tactic to get what they want, at the expense of many players. I think your suggestion is the only way CCP can redeem themselves, but they're only going to be compelled to do so in the wake of community outcry. There's some bizarre principle held on these forums, that because CCP has the legal right to do something, they should not be criticised when they do it. So... CCP said we're removing BPOs so this is your last change to buy them. A BPO is an item that you only need one of, since it can cover everything its purpose serves without running out. People bought Aurum from the Playstation Store in order to convert it to these items and some bought multiple even though it served absolutely no purpose presently or in the future to obtain multiple of them where one would suffice. CCP removed BPOs from the in-game market stating that there are no plans to remove them from your inventory in the future. This does not mean that they may not be removed in the future, it simply means that no plans currently exist to remove them. CCP plans to make a change to the game that will render the BPO that the items represents completely obsolete and worthless otherwise so CCP says we're going to convert the item back to Aurum for you. CCP did not ask you to buy multiple of them, nor did they say that a change to the game would not require them to be removed. What I find to be the real problem here is that people are essentially screaming for CCP to not release 1.7 because they will lose the BPOs when in actuality you paid for the Aurum with real money and not the BPO itself. If this issue were related to the Ishukone Watch Saga, Gurista Saga, Toxin ICD-9 SMG or any item that was purchased in the pack itself as opposed to buying Aurum and then using the Aurum to get the weapon, I would be concerned as it was the item in the pack that you were promised and not the Aurum to obtain an item in the game.
What are you talking about with the mentions of "multiples"? With the exception of the stuff that is just an account of what has happened, I'm at a loss to understand what you're saying here.
No.
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