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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4640
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Posted - 2013.11.20 20:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m, which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill the forge gunner.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
958
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 20:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are.
Assault Dropships no longer exist as of 1.7, when the Swarm Launchers are being nerfed.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4642
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Assault Dropships no longer exist as of 1.7, when the Swarm Launchers are being nerfed.
Read the most recent dev blog, they are keeping them in.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Ridire Greine
30
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Posted - 2013.11.20 20:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Height Advantage for Forge Gunners, HAVs cant climb ladders. (As funny as that would be)
A Forge Gunner who isn't looking for a height advantage is a bad Forger and should go biomass themselves.
Want a respec?
Send me 50mil ISK
"Woh i rlly god a respek, 11/10" - IGN
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2437
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Infantry might render at 400m, but have you tried to pick them out from from the ground clutter from 400m or even 200m away while flying? That's a huge area to scan (Half a million square meters for 400m rendering) and a significant portion of that is blocked by the ship so you have to maneuver to check it all out.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
958
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Posted - 2013.11.20 21:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Assault Dropships no longer exist as of 1.7, when the Swarm Launchers are being nerfed. Read the most recent dev blog, they are keeping them in.
Thank you. I am an idiot.
Well, we'll see in 1.7. I don't use Swarms to take out Dropships, as they usually outrun them. I've had more success with Forge Guns, and, AFAIK, the changes to those have not been announced. I'm not sure how much HP they have, but an Assault Forge Gun would force them to activate their hardeners going in, giving them only 30 seconds to deal damage and get out. Even with a massive amount of HP, it shouldn't be too hard to suppress them. Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5289
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Even if derpships are OP as hell...
Pilots deserve it for sticking with them like this.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4642
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Assault Dropships no longer exist as of 1.7, when the Swarm Launchers are being nerfed. Read the most recent dev blog, they are keeping them in. Thank you. I am an idiot. Well, we'll see in 1.7. I don't use Swarms to take out Dropships, as they usually outrun them. I've had more success with Forge Guns, and, AFAIK, the changes to those have not been announced. I'm not sure how much HP they have, but an Assault Forge Gun would force them to activate their hardeners going in, giving them only 30 seconds to deal damage and get out. Even with a massive amount of HP, it shouldn't be too hard to suppress them. Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship.
You're forgetting that the dropship can do 300 splash damage, killing the forge gunner before the 30 seconds have passed.
And while yes swarms didn't usually kill dropships, they would at least act as area denial.
Now they can't even do that.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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SILVERBACK 02
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
303
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
hats off to you if you can hit an ant at 200m away with that stupid missle turret and dropship camera
level 0 forum warrior
self-proclaimed slayer
weapon of choice:
GEK-38 gallante assault rifle
-STB infantry
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Panoscape
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
163
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
IIRC, the range on the small missile turrets is 200m, so staying in the sweet spot of 175-200m without an altimeter will be difficult. I wish they would give a HUD for the pilot to show altitude, pitch and horizon... plus fix the darn aiming though your dropship.
175m is about the same hight as resting on top of the third ring on the ring tower and firing at A. I've camped up there with my DS and was able to hit people in the city, you just have to lead them more.
Not sure if I'm going back into DS, seems like too many SP sinks for me. |
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EternalRMG
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry without a care in the world, as swarmers can't hit them.. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are.
Lolz
The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP
"Fight Togheter; Win Together"
Duster Since: July 2012
Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
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darkiller240
K-A-O-S theory
180
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Even if derpships are OP as hell...
Pilots deserve it for sticking with them like this.
Thank you :D
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
355
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:Lolz
The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP I just calculated about 13k eHP before skill modifiers.
I just hope that the guys at CCP know how to operate an excel-sheet. 30 seconds is ample time to descend, kill 2 guys and ascend into safety to wait for the hardeners to cool down. Considering that you're pretty much invincible up there I might just skill back into dropships once 1.7 hits. |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
208
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
i Hope that Dropship pilot get good thing, with this we also see fight for AIR control and not only ground control
...and may the FORGE be with you.
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EternalRMG
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Lolz
The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP I just calculated about 13k eHP before skill modifiers. I just hope that the guys at CCP know how to operate an excel-sheet. 30 seconds is ample time to descend, kill 2 guys and ascend into safety to wait for the hardeners to cool down. Considering that you're pretty much invincible up there I might just skill back into dropships once 1.7 hits.
bad calculations are bad
you might not be taking in consideration the stacking penalties or that they just have 4 module slots in total
"Fight Togheter; Win Together"
Duster Since: July 2012
Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
958
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry without a care in the world, as swarmers can't hit them.. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Lolz The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP
I'd be interested to know the limits. I haven't seen the dropships, but it looks like the number was calculated with 2 Shield Hardeners and 1 Shield Extender of some sort. 3000 Shields / (0.4 * 0.4) would amount to 18,750 damage. Add in resistances to explosives and it's probably over 20,000. Can this all fit on a Dropship?
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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EternalRMG
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Assault Dropships no longer exist as of 1.7, when the Swarm Launchers are being nerfed. Read the most recent dev blog, they are keeping them in. Thank you. I am an idiot. Well, we'll see in 1.7. I don't use Swarms to take out Dropships, as they usually outrun them. I've had more success with Forge Guns, and, AFAIK, the changes to those have not been announced. I'm not sure how much HP they have, but an Assault Forge Gun would force them to activate their hardeners going in, giving them only 30 seconds to deal damage and get out. Even with a massive amount of HP, it shouldn't be too hard to suppress them. Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship. You're forgetting that the dropship can do 300 splash damage, killing the forge gunner before the 30 seconds have passed. And while yes swarms didn't usually kill dropships, they would at least act as area denial. Now they can't even do that.
Sure bcause Heavy frames have less than 600 Base HP + you dont consider the shield that reduces explosive dmg and the fact that there are many DS pilots who cant aim for crap
"Fight Togheter; Win Together"
Duster Since: July 2012
Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
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EternalRMG
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry without a care in the world, as swarmers can't hit them.. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Lolz The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP I'd be interested to know the limits. I haven't seen the dropships, but it looks like the number was calculated with 2 Shield Hardeners and 1 Shield Extender of some sort. 3000 Shields / (0.4 * 0.4) would amount to 18,750 damage . Add in resistances to explosives and it's probably over 20,000. Can this all fit on a Dropship?
its not 0.4 x 0.4
counting stacking penalties its (0.4 x (0.87 x 0.4) making it have a max of 4k
"Fight Togheter; Win Together"
Duster Since: July 2012
Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
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darkiller240
K-A-O-S theory
180
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Lolz
The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP I just calculated about 13k eHP before skill modifiers. I just hope that the guys at CCP know how to operate an excel-sheet. 30 seconds is ample time to descend, kill 2 guys and ascend into safety to wait for the hardeners to cool down. Considering that you're pretty much invincible up there I might just skill back into dropships once 1.7 hits.
yer sure, if your dum enough to stand still while a dropship is above you should die
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1191
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I just calculated about 13k eHP before skill modifiers.
I just hope that the guys at CCP know how to operate an excel-sheet. 30 seconds is ample time to descend, kill 2 guys and ascend into safety to wait for the hardeners to cool down. Considering that you're pretty much invincible up there I might just skill back into dropships once 1.7 hits.
I, for one, welcome our new Assault Dropship overlords. I will be welcoming them with a 21-blap Ishukone Assault Forge Gun salute.
I'll admit, I like the idea of it not being a total cakewalk to kill them.
But here's the thing: even if the FG hit doesn't hurt like it used to, it screws with the dropship's flying and its aiming. I don't think it's going to be as simple as Assault Dropships being OP.
They're going to have to work hard for their kills. In which case, they deserve them.
¶Gêƒ__ Gò«
Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP)
¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
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Goric Rumis
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
248
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Posted - 2013.11.20 21:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think we'll have to wait and find out on this one. I'm not worried about swarm launchers hitting them--swarms are allowed to be irrelevant past 175m. You can scare dropships away from nearer engagements, or keep it from terrorizing a strategic point on the map. To actually knock a dropship out of the sky, it's acceptable to require a forge gun. If dropships still get shaken up by the impact, that might be enough even when it's hardened to keep them from dominating the field.
I think we'll be seeing a lot fewer dropship deaths, since 10 seconds can easily get a dropship out of range if you know roughly where your shooter is. But as for general balance, there are too many factors for me to throw out any reasonable prediction.
Borne Velvalor wrote:Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship.
Disagree with this, most assault dropship pilots I've seen operate with the tanker mindset and fly solo. That might change with dropships being less prone to spontaneous explosions. Again, we'll have to see. |
Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
959
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry without a care in the world, as swarmers can't hit them.. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Lolz The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP I'd be interested to know the limits. I haven't seen the dropships, but it looks like the number was calculated with 2 Shield Hardeners and 1 Shield Extender of some sort. 3000 Shields / (0.4 * 0.4) would amount to 18,750 damage . Add in resistances to explosives and it's probably over 20,000. Can this all fit on a Dropship? its not 0.4 x 0.4 counting stacking penalties its (0.4 x (0.87 x 0.4) making it have a max of 4k
What? First off, 3000 / (0.4 * 0.4 * 0.87) would be higher and be over 21k, because I used the inverse of the resistance and divided it in. The penalty would be applied to the resistance, not the inverse. It would thus be 3000 / (0.4 * 0.4 / 0.87), which is 16k. You have 100% damage. 60% resistance makes it 40% damage. Another 60% after penalties is technically a bit over 54%. Removing 54% of the remaining 40% ends up with a little over 18%. Get the inverse and multiply it into the health, or just divide it (same result) and you get 16k HP. Not a big difference, if we want to be exact.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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ForgeGuns R4N00BS
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.11.20 21:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:I think we'll have to wait and find out on this one. I'm not worried about swarm launchers hitting them--swarms are allowed to be irrelevant past 175m. You can scare dropships away from nearer engagements, or keep it from terrorizing a strategic point on the map. To actually knock a dropship out of the sky, it's acceptable to require a forge gun. If dropships still get shaken up by the impact, that might be enough even when it's hardened to keep them from dominating the field. I think we'll be seeing a lot fewer dropship deaths, since 10 seconds can easily get a dropship out of range if you know roughly where your shooter is. But as for general balance, there are too many factors for me to throw out any reasonable prediction. Borne Velvalor wrote:Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship. Disagree with this, most assault dropship pilots I've seen operate with the tanker mindset and fly solo. That might change with dropships being less prone to spontaneous explosions. Again, we'll have to see.
Reason for solo dropships was two fold:
1. Turret bug makes gunners quit the game, rotating to certain valid areas resets their aim, rips gun out of hand, throws it to a useless side angle.
2. For having millions of assets, tens of millions in SP, and several other players with all their gear and SP tied up in one area hovering around uselessly is a gigantic waste compared to the single militia forge gun, anywhere within 250 meters on the map below, who can nullify all of their existences or deny the entire map.
None of this may have changed. ADS lost slots, probably lowered engagement times, increased downtime with ammo now and larger cooldowns,buffed red-line rail tanks and turrets that can hardly be fought against. Constantly harassing from out of render distance even,
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
959
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:I think we'll have to wait and find out on this one. I'm not worried about swarm launchers hitting them--swarms are allowed to be irrelevant past 175m. You can scare dropships away from nearer engagements, or keep it from terrorizing a strategic point on the map. To actually knock a dropship out of the sky, it's acceptable to require a forge gun. If dropships still get shaken up by the impact, that might be enough even when it's hardened to keep them from dominating the field. I think we'll be seeing a lot fewer dropship deaths, since 10 seconds can easily get a dropship out of range if you know roughly where your shooter is. But as for general balance, there are too many factors for me to throw out any reasonable prediction. Borne Velvalor wrote:Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship. Disagree with this, most assault dropship pilots I've seen operate with the tanker mindset and fly solo. That might change with dropships being less prone to spontaneous explosions. Again, we'll have to see.
Around half the ones I see have 1 gunner or more, although in pubs blueberries like to hop in your guns as soon as your vehicle drops. I usually shoot them off. I don't think one guy 200m away occasionally occasionally dealing 300 explosive damage to someone is a big deal, regardless. It takes skill to aim from that distance and actually hit anything while being slammed by Assault Forge Guns and the period of time they would have to actually kill someone would be pretty low.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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EternalRMG
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 22:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry without a care in the world, as swarmers can't hit them.. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are. Lolz The max you can get is about 5 and a half K HP I'd be interested to know the limits. I haven't seen the dropships, but it looks like the number was calculated with 2 Shield Hardeners and 1 Shield Extender of some sort. 3000 Shields / (0.4 * 0.4) would amount to 18,750 damage . Add in resistances to explosives and it's probably over 20,000. Can this all fit on a Dropship? its not 0.4 x 0.4 counting stacking penalties its (0.4 x (0.87 x 0.4) making it have a max of 4k What? First off, 3000 / (0.4 * 0.4 * 0.87) would be higher and be over 21k, because I used the inverse of the resistance and divided it in. The penalty would be applied to the resistance, not the inverse. It would thus be 3000 / (0.4 * 0.4 / 0.87), which is 16k. You have 100% damage. 60% resistance makes it 40% damage. Another 60% after penalties is technically a bit over 54%. Removing 54% of the remaining 40% ends up with a little over 18%. Get the inverse and multiply it into the health, or just divide it (same result) and you get 16k HP. Not a big difference, if we want to be exact.
i mean that the second module had only 87% of effectiveness, yes my math isnt that goo :P
"Fight Togheter; Win Together"
Duster Since: July 2012
Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
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EternalRMG
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
611
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:I think we'll have to wait and find out on this one. I'm not worried about swarm launchers hitting them--swarms are allowed to be irrelevant past 175m. You can scare dropships away from nearer engagements, or keep it from terrorizing a strategic point on the map. To actually knock a dropship out of the sky, it's acceptable to require a forge gun. If dropships still get shaken up by the impact, that might be enough even when it's hardened to keep them from dominating the field. I think we'll be seeing a lot fewer dropship deaths, since 10 seconds can easily get a dropship out of range if you know roughly where your shooter is. But as for general balance, there are too many factors for me to throw out any reasonable prediction. Borne Velvalor wrote:Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship. Disagree with this, most assault dropship pilots I've seen operate with the tanker mindset and fly solo. That might change with dropships being less prone to spontaneous explosions. Again, we'll have to see.
No ADS Pilot will fit turrets for the gunners
You use a lot of Pg/CPu for a thing that wont be used
"Fight Togheter; Win Together"
Duster Since: July 2012
Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
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Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
309
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:
Disagree with this, most assault dropship pilots I've seen operate with the tanker mindset and fly solo. That might change with dropships being less prone to spontaneous explosions. Again, we'll have to see.
I've been wanting to try 2 3-person squads with 2 pilots and 4 ground troops working in close concert.
Think of how deadly and effective would that could be! Highly maneuverable transport and dual support for different engagement types (dropships kill standard infantry, then drop infantry to fend off AV players). Get a scanner on the ground to spot for the ships, have the ships call out enemies/clear links and equipment. I'd love to try that sometime.
Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane
Kills- Incubus: 2; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 10
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
416
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So uhh...
Swarms are now at 175m (as opposed to 400m), which is where the old rendering distance was.
Now that's rendering distance is fixed, dropships will be able to see troops from past that.
That's good.
However, that means dropships can just sit over 175m and destroy infantry without a care in the world, as swarmers can't hit them.. <-- That's of course if the swarmer is driectly under the dropship, if he's not that's even shorter.
In addition, small missiles will have 300 splash damage.
And with active tanking dropships can have 18k eHP for 30 seconds from what I saw, meaning that they can just kill any forge gunner they see because of heavies slow speed and being large targets.
Now before you start yelling at me, I am not saying this is a problem, I'm ASKING if it will be.
I am not sure how good visibility is at 176m+, I am not sure how accurate small missiles are, and I am not sure how fast they are.
I think you're forgetting the swarms will still travel 400m, its only lock on distance that's changing. That means swarms will likely never miss their target if they get a lock on.
[sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
413
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:
I think you're forgetting the swarms will still travel 400m, its only lock on distance that's changing. That means swarms will likely never miss their target if they get a lock on.
"only"?
It's a HUGE, HUGE, (and completely unneccessary ) nerf.
Previouysly, you can see a dropship coming towards you at distance, get a lock and then finally release when they get in range.
If you released before 200m, you probably would miss them anyway.
Now in future, you see one flying towards you... you wait to be able to even start to get a lock... and wait... and wait some more...
Oh they're in lock range! gettiing lock...
and while the lockon counter starts, they travel the distance from 200m out, to 0-50m distance from you..
and you RELEASE the hounds... and meanwhile, they've already passed you by so your swarms are going the wrong way....
(and even if you WERE facing the right way.. unless the dropship is actually a derpship that likes to aimlessly hover above infantry with swarm lauchers... the thing is now moving away from you, probably at speed, so...)
they'll never catch it.
swarm laucher, nerfed into OBLIVION.
What the #@$@ were the CCP people thinking??
It's virtually impossible to kill an assault dropship with swarms even NOW, unless maybe you have proto.
TWO people with ADV swarms, working as a team, can almost never take out an assaut dropship.
This needs a nerf? Ludicrous!
Nerf proto swarms, maybe, but not ALL swarms!
With the nerf, there will be no point in ever skilling into swarms at all. Your effective antivehicle choices will consist of
Forge Gun
Assault Forge Gun
Or..
Breech Forge Gun.
All hail our FG waddling overlords |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
563
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
with forge guns and rail tanks being destined to become prevalent, dropships will not be OP, theyll still be garbage |
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1192
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Even if derpships are OP as hell...
Pilots deserve it for sticking with them like this.
No role in the game deserves to be "OP" or "UP" because of the condition of the role before it was "balanced".
That is what creates FoTMs. And it is counter productive and requires a whole new re-balancing to fix the "balancing" that was implemented in the first place
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
497
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Finally, dropships are getting the buffs they so desperately needed for months, i could care less about those ****** swarm launchers that enjoy camping and using their high distance to their advantage, thank you for this CCP. Once this happens, i may just consider coming back. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1298
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
If forges are not changed than no, not really...
"Please don't"
GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
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Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
236
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
I'm wondering if small railguns are actually going to be as effective in 1.7 as CCP say, will we see more effective anti-air and and anti-ground being carried out by assault dropships using railguns. According to the table they could be extremely potent. |
lDocHollidayl
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
357
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Heavies have a role again...need one on every team to deny the ADS. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2275
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 23:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
ForgeGuns R4N00BS wrote:Goric Rumis wrote:I think we'll have to wait and find out on this one. I'm not worried about swarm launchers hitting them--swarms are allowed to be irrelevant past 175m. You can scare dropships away from nearer engagements, or keep it from terrorizing a strategic point on the map. To actually knock a dropship out of the sky, it's acceptable to require a forge gun. If dropships still get shaken up by the impact, that might be enough even when it's hardened to keep them from dominating the field. I think we'll be seeing a lot fewer dropship deaths, since 10 seconds can easily get a dropship out of range if you know roughly where your shooter is. But as for general balance, there are too many factors for me to throw out any reasonable prediction. Borne Velvalor wrote:Also, Assault Dropships usually have 2 gunners in addition to the pilot to maximize the damage potential. That's half a squad to man a decent Assault Dropship. Disagree with this, most assault dropship pilots I've seen operate with the tanker mindset and fly solo. That might change with dropships being less prone to spontaneous explosions. Again, we'll have to see. Reason for solo dropships was two fold: 1. Turret bug makes gunners quit the game, rotating to certain valid areas resets their aim, rips gun out of hand, throws it to a useless side angle. 2. For having millions of assets, tens of millions in SP, and several other players with all their gear and SP tied up in one area hovering around uselessly is a gigantic waste compared to the single militia forge gun, anywhere within 250 meters on the map below, who can nullify all of their existences or deny the entire map. That's why I have to fly solo. All my gunners quit over that bug lol.
None of this may have changed. ADS lost slots, probably lowered engagement times, increased downtime with ammo now and larger cooldowns,buffed red-line rail tanks and turrets that can hardly be fought against. Constantly harassing from out of render distance even,
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