DUST Search - Reasons a Respec should or should not happen.

The Robot Devil wrote:

Borne Velvalor wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

On the first point, you lose nothing for having spent those SP. You still have access to that weapon, and noone else got early access to that weapon. Everyone is going to start at 0, and everyone is going to have to claw their way up.

I lost the time acquiring over a million SP is what I lost (which is over a month of play). If I don't use the gun, it doesn't matter how much SP I put into it.

Zero Harpuia wrote:

On the seconds point, you are speccing into ASSAULT RIFLES. If you wanted Tactical Rifles, the Scrambler Rifle already exists. The rifle class weapons only have variants because the AR was the only rifle type, so it had to cover all four versions. They're going to be inferior to the actual racials. Putting in on them, knowing that, gives you no right to complain really. It's like speccing into the Swarm Launcher and being upset that it can't do much against Infantry. That isn't what the gun was made for.

I do far better with the Tactical than the Scrambler and anyone who has used both would see that there ARE differences. The most obvious are that the Tactical has a much higher zoom on its scope, a longer range (a 15m+ difference) and no heat to worry about. I also like the Burst Rifle, even though it's a piece of crap, so are you going to tell me next that I should've specced into the Combat Rifle? Oh, wait, it doesn't exist yet. I could've waited, yes. However, if CCP has decided to never respec anything, then I might as well "wait" a year to play the game, when it (hopefully) has the equipment I want. Is this how real life works? Yes. If you buy a PS3 when you know the PS4 is coming out and you really wanted a PS4 but needed something to play, you won't be getting a refund. Is it good for player retention and satisfaction? I don't think so.

The whole dynamics of the game are shifting all the time. You'll spec into a gun one moment and it'll be fine, the next moment it's losing Xm off its range, and two weapons that outrange it and supplant its role are introduced. It's like speccing into a bazooka to take out a tank, and then two weeks later they add a Javelin and it's back to grinding for a month for the cash to get it, while everyone who waited just grabs it. I guess the alternative is to just wait, and wait, and wait? That's fine for players with 20m SP and good gear. It's not fine when you're getting stomped and need to invest in a gun to stop getting stomped.

You will not like this game, it is not for you. The game will always change and it doesn't seem like you can handle change too well so my advice is to relax and play the game or take a break. They will give plenty of time for you to save SP for the next new item. Usually about 3 weeks and that should be more than enough time for you to get the SP needed to be "competitive".


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 921	Posted - 2013.11.18 04:42:00 - [1] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: 1. On the advent of new guns or suits. When a new gun or suit comes out, it comes out for all of us. We all have the chance to get into it immediately and work towards it. It doesn't give any unfair advantage to people who saved up, they didn't use these points on who-knows-what to throw them on an untested device. It doesn't make any of your previous choices null. Your previous choice is made null simply by the fact that more options exist now than when you first made your choice. Had they existed back then, you might've chosen differently. I specced into Lasers and felt they were severely UP after 1.6 so I had to spec into something else. I chose ARs for the Tactical Rifle. As of 1.7, the Tactical Rifle is receiving a range nerf and will, probably, along with the Laser Rifle (my other main weapon), have it's niche absorbed by Combat and Rail Rifles. Zero Harpuia wrote: 2. When the nail that sticks up gets nerfed. If you are using something that has been stated by CCP to be functioning wrongly, or something that the vast majority of players can agree on (including the users) is overly powerful, then you have no right to complain when it gets treated as such. If the nerf doesn't completely change how that feature operates, especially not in the wording of its description, then you have no leg to stand on. I use Tactical Assault Rifles. They got nerfed once and that's fine. Now, however, their only real advantage is range. Their range is being nerfed to 60m in 1.7 and the standard Assault Rifle is being buffed to 48m, meaning I'm stuck with another Laser Rifle (extremely situational). Plus, the Rail Rifles and Combat Rifles will probably mop the floor with the Tactical and Burst. Sure, I could use normal Assault Rifles, but that's not what I specced into them for. --- Really, it would be nice to get a weapon respec when the two new weapons come out. I'd love to use the new weapons, but I'm not looking forward to slaving away for weeks to get the SP, especially when I've wasted so much SP already and still have other skills to level up. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 929	Posted - 2013.11.18 12:39:00 - [2] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: On the first point, you lose nothing for having spent those SP. You still have access to that weapon, and noone else got early access to that weapon. Everyone is going to start at 0, and everyone is going to have to claw their way up. I lost the time acquiring over a million SP is what I lost (which is over a month of play). If I don't use the gun, it doesn't matter how much SP I put into it. Zero Harpuia wrote: On the seconds point, you are speccing into ASSAULT RIFLES. If you wanted Tactical Rifles, the Scrambler Rifle already exists. The rifle class weapons only have variants because the AR was the only rifle type, so it had to cover all four versions. They're going to be inferior to the actual racials. Putting in on them, knowing that, gives you no right to complain really. It's like speccing into the Swarm Launcher and being upset that it can't do much against Infantry. That isn't what the gun was made for. I do far better with the Tactical than the Scrambler and anyone who has used both would see that there ARE differences. The most obvious are that the Tactical has a much higher zoom on its scope, a longer range (a 15m+ difference) and no heat to worry about. I also like the Burst Rifle, even though it's a piece of crap, so are you going to tell me next that I should've specced into the Combat Rifle? Oh, wait, it doesn't exist yet. I could've waited, yes. However, if CCP has decided to never respec anything, then I might as well "wait" a year to play the game, when it (hopefully) has the equipment I want. Is this how real life works? Yes. If you buy a PS3 when you know the PS4 is coming out and you really wanted a PS4 but needed something to play, you won't be getting a refund. Is it good for player retention and satisfaction? I don't think so. The whole dynamics of the game are shifting all the time. You'll spec into a gun one moment and it'll be fine, the next moment it's losing Xm off its range, and two weapons that outrange it and supplant its role are introduced. It's like speccing into a bazooka to take out a tank, and then two weeks later they add a Javelin and it's back to grinding for a month for the cash to get it, while everyone who waited just grabs it. I guess the alternative is to just wait, and wait, and wait? That's fine for players with 20m SP and good gear. It's not fine when you're getting stomped and need to invest in a gun to stop getting stomped. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 929	Posted - 2013.11.18 12:48:00 - [3] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I only disagree with points 1 and 4. AR sp should be refunded upon the release of all other rifles, even if the AR's stats were to remain the same. If you want to run a rifle character, you're given the option of wasting SP in order to be competitive up until then, or running inferior gear & not being able to compete whilst SP is saved up. The same goes for suits. We can't realistically expect heavies to go for months without upgrading their suits just so that they won't be wasting SP. It's only fair to dish out a refund of Amarr heavy dropsuit skillpoints upon the release of any other race's equivalent. On the issue of slight tweaks, I don't think there should be a partial respec unless the functional role of a weapon, suit or gear is changed. For example, the upcoming changes to vehicles will not change tanks from being tanks, and tankers will still be tankers. (The exception beong that many vehicle skills are expected to change). Exactly what I am saying, thank you. I know EXACTLY what kind of role I want to fill. At first, the Laser Rifle filled this role. Then the collision changes in 1.6 saw the advent of more Scrambler Rifles and it became even harder to use. I was getting slaughtered, and the only option for my playstyle was the Tactical Assault Rifle, as it was the only rifle that had a similar range, going a good 15m beyond the Scrambler Rifle, along with a scope. It was the only option to remain competitive within my niche. Now, however, I would love to get into Combat or Rail Rifles. Instead, I'll just leave the game for 2 months and gain 1.5 million passive SP and use that, because I do not want to play with a UP gun for months. I already did that with the Laser Rifle, which I barely specced into in anticipation of future weapons, until 1.6. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 929	Posted - 2013.11.18 12:57:00 - [4] - Quote Haerr wrote: What about when 3 out of the 7 branches in the skill tree is being reworked? Considering the addition of 2 new Rifles that consume the niches of my 3 favourite rifles, (and the only guns I have the skills to use comfortably without getting stomped) the Burst, Tactical and Laser Rifles, I'd say that 4 of 7 are being reworked in my case. Corporations doesn't count, so it's 4 of 6. However, all of the skill branches could be reworked and we should just "man up" and waste a hundred hours of our lives playing Dust 514 until we keel over to make the millions of wasted SP up. Is this somehow better because EVE was worse? "We aren't putting back your toe when we were supposed to remove your finger. You should just suck it up, man; that guy over there had his whole foot removed. In fact, he's telling YOU to suck it up because, hey, if he suffers, you should too." Yes, constant respecs allows more players to instantly replicate the FotM builds. Other counters need to be created (you know, such as not making the game balance suck) to counter it. Maybe limit your respecs, so that when you get royally screwed over you can respec. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 929	Posted - 2013.11.18 13:12:00 - [5] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: On the first point, you lose nothing for having spent those SP. You still have access to that weapon, and noone else got early access to that weapon. Everyone is going to start at 0, and everyone is going to have to claw their way up. I lost the time acquiring over a million SP is what I lost (which is over a month of play). If I don't use the gun, it doesn't matter how much SP I put into it. Zero Harpuia wrote: On the seconds point, you are speccing into ASSAULT RIFLES. If you wanted Tactical Rifles, the Scrambler Rifle already exists. The rifle class weapons only have variants because the AR was the only rifle type, so it had to cover all four versions. They're going to be inferior to the actual racials. Putting in on them, knowing that, gives you no right to complain really. It's like speccing into the Swarm Launcher and being upset that it can't do much against Infantry. That isn't what the gun was made for. I do far better with the Tactical than the Scrambler and anyone who has used both would see that there ARE differences. The most obvious are that the Tactical has a much higher zoom on its scope, a longer range (a 15m+ difference) and no heat to worry about. I also like the Burst Rifle, even though it's a piece of crap, so are you going to tell me next that I should've specced into the Combat Rifle? Oh, wait, it doesn't exist yet. I could've waited, yes. However, if CCP has decided to never respec anything, then I might as well "wait" a year to play the game, when it (hopefully) has the equipment I want. Is this how real life works? Yes. If you buy a PS3 when you know the PS4 is coming out and you really wanted a PS4 but needed something to play, you won't be getting a refund. Is it good for player retention and satisfaction? I don't think so. The whole dynamics of the game are shifting all the time. You'll spec into a gun one moment and it'll be fine, the next moment it's losing Xm off its range, and two weapons that outrange it and supplant its role are introduced. It's like speccing into a bazooka to take out a tank, and then two weeks later they add a Javelin and it's back to grinding for a month for the cash to get it, while everyone who waited just grabs it. I guess the alternative is to just wait, and wait, and wait? That's fine for players with 20m SP and good gear. It's not fine when you're getting stomped and need to invest in a gun to stop getting stomped. You will not like this game, it is not for you. The game will always change and it doesn't seem like you can handle change too well so my advice is to relax and play the game or take a break. They will give plenty of time for you to save SP for the next new item. Usually about 3 weeks and that should be more than enough time for you to get the SP needed to be "competitive". Don't worry about it; I write long, anguished posts because I'm bored, not usually because I am extremely angry. I DO like Dust 514, when I'm not spending 95% of my time earning back the SP I put into something that got nerfed, removed, changed, or had its niche completely absorbed by a new addition. Also, when you go from a 3.0 weekly K/D to a 0.5 because 1.6 made half the player base pick up Scrambler Rifles (at least in the hundreds of matches I've played since then) and your gun just isn't cutting it, it's kind of hard to not get frustrated and spend your SP on the current weapons. "Don't worry, you can just spend three weeks getting the crap stomped out of you when you have the SP you need to stop getting stomped because we don't want you to use the new guns" is exactly what CCP is trying to tell me. Again, if I had 20m SP and not 5m it wouldn't matter as much. I can already see the pain when everyone is running around with 80m Duvolles, killing me in 0.8 seconds as I fire my Laser or Tactical at them in vain. Seriously, I have more fun running around on my alt headshotting people with Scrambler Pistols in cheap gear than using prototype assault rifles and advanced logistics. It has so little SP invested in it and so little need to invest SP into anything that the whole game becomes less annoying. The truth is, not giving a respec does nothing for weapon variety. Does CCP think someone that has specced 4m SP into Assault Rifles is just going to negate that 4m SP and haul ass to earn another 4m SP for the Rail Rifle? I am a gamer that usually loves grinds. I've played every Monster Hunter game up to Ultimate, even the Japanese only Portable 3rd, for hundreds of hours. Yet, Dust 514 is a whole new level of grind; one where playing something else and accruing passive SP is one of the easiest ways to advance. Sure, you gain half the SP than if you always hit the cap, logged on every single day and played 20 extra matches beyond the cap every week. However, you waste no SP, either, so you actually end up ahead of the pack. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 929	Posted - 2013.11.18 13:21:00 - [6] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: Respec's will be needed when the new weapons, dropsuits, vecheles and modules come. Respec's will be needed when the racial bonuses, dropsuit bonuses change/come. Respec's will be needed when they change some of the modules that that right now are in the wrong slots. DMG mods are now high slot modules, they are supose to be low slot modules, Hacking and speed modules are now low slot modules, they are supose to be high slot modules, etc. etc. So yes we need to get more respec's. When ALL this is here and fixed, i NEVER want to se ANYONE get a respec EVER again, but until then we NEED it. No. We all know more suits and gear are coming. We still shouldn't get a respec EVER. If Dust ever hit a point where new gear was not added or stats were not changed it would become stale and then die. Dust is not a short life game like BF or COD. Dust has to evolve and change overtime or else's it won't have a long life. EVE is an awesome game but the only reason it has survived a decade is because it is always changing. You always have to learn new **** and train new things. I own plenty of games that didn't change or evolve and that's why I don't ever play them anymore. I don't want Dust to become another game I don't play and that means Dust Will always have to have changes. People who want to cry about respecs every time something changes can play one of the hundreds of other games that allow you to skill up to the max and never have to change anything ever. Screw that, Dust is hard. Grinding SP is hard. So choosing what to skill into should be a hard decision. Respecs are a crutch and they are bad for the game. Deal with it. Someone attacks you, and you have the option of buying a weapon for $2 to defend yourself. Then, after you do it, or even as you do it, they tell you that you could've saved the $2 and bought the winning lotto ticket. Was there a choice? However, this is a game, so I'll probably just leave for a few months after 1.7 hits. For someone who WANTS to play this game and actively participate, however, it can be frustrating. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 943	Posted - 2013.11.18 17:07:00 - [7] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Haerr wrote: What about when 3 out of the 7 branches in the skill tree is being reworked? Considering the addition of 2 new Rifles that consume the niches of my 3 favourite rifles, (and the only guns I have the skills to use comfortably without getting stomped) the Burst, Tactical and Laser Rifles, I'd say that 4 of 7 are being reworked in my case. Corporations doesn't count, so it's 4 of 6. However, all of the skill branches could be reworked and we should just "man up" and waste a hundred hours of our lives playing Dust 514 until we keel over to make the millions of wasted SP up. Is this somehow better because EVE was worse? "We aren't putting back your toe when we were supposed to remove your finger. You should just suck it up, man; that guy over there had his whole foot removed. In fact, he's telling YOU to suck it up because, hey, if he suffers, you should too." Yes, constant respecs allows more players to instantly replicate the FotM builds. Other counters need to be created (you know, such as not making the game balance suck) to counter it. Maybe limit your respecs, so that when you get royally screwed over you can respec. Rule 1 should cover skills as well. Probably should have put it there in black and white, but c'est la vie, to late now. Also, as for the whole 'you get stomped if you hold back SP' thing, I've had 1.5 million SP banked since 1.4. I still come out ahead in every fight I'm in. So from personal experience, I'd say that that isn't true. As for 1, it has to do with what you consider wastage and how many months on end and hundreds of hours you can take of grinding. Also, it depends on how much SP you have. I'd been deliberating for a long time what to put my SP into and I didn't really have any guns that worked for my niche. I needed a mid-long range weapon, so I grabbed the Tactical Assault Rifle. I don't have maxed core skills and all maxed modules. I don't have any decent gun at prof 5 I can just fall back on. I don't even care anymore. If my gun is UP, I'll just leave until I get enough passive SP to spec a few levels into proficiency. I'm currently working on my modules and vehicles, but I'll probably end up just hoarding all my SP since I have an OK weapon for 1.7. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.