DUST Search - [Feedback] New Faction Warfare System

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

1.Factor in the ISK costs of items, making it more punishing to kill expensive suits GÇô You could keep the number of kills per level of standings and then have different value items take more of that quota up. As an example value, for every 100k that the destroyed item costs, increase the number of kills that it counts for by one. Kill a 200k suit? 3 kills towards your quota.

While I think you're getting at an important factor here, I could see this becoming a particular problem with the accidental logi team kill. Depending on how that suit is fit, it might be particularly squishy whilst carrying proto equipment thus driving up the value of suit. If this suit accidentally runs in front of a heavy machine gunner, that player is now down '3' strikes.

Also I imagine that the bug where team kills currently counted for players that die in your dropship would have to be fixed. I one ship full of proto fit players was destroyed that may mean immediate 24h dismissal for a player from one faction's battles

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Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5178	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:46:00 - [1] - Quote So, IGÇÖve spent some time thinking about the new faction warfare system GÇô this thread is what I think of it. Sections: [P1] Standings/Friendly Fire [P2] LP stores, isk rewards, and the player market [P3] The importance of team deploy and little things about FW [P1] Standings/Friendly Fire Friendly fire is going to be huge. ItGÇÖs going to massively change the way FW is played GÇô so it needs to be done right. I think there are a few problems with the current consequences for shooting allies. In some ways itGÇÖs too harsh and in others itGÇÖs too lenient. Firstly, I find the explanation of the standings system ambiguous and IGÇÖve interpreted it in two different ways. The first is that each kill gives you a standings penalty. CCP SoxFour wrote: With these stats being level 10, team killing 4 times (without said team kill being forgiven), you would then have to grind about 800+ matches to get back. We are very open to adjusting this and scaling it. ThatGÇÖs ridiculously harsh, and IGÇÖm inclined to believe this is the wrong interpretation. The phrasing was a little confusing though. The other way I read it was that depending on your level youGÇÖd be able to TK a certain number of times before being removed and then taking a standings hit for a removal GÇô and if you do that 4 times at level 10, itGÇÖs worth 800+ matches. You get forgiven 15 times before being removed at this level. At the lower levels, itGÇÖs 4/5 times before you get removed from the match. I think the lower level numbers are fine unless youGÇÖre a squad leader and call in a bad orbital GÇô that could end in tears. Bear in mind that EVE orbitals have a bit of a delay before arriving. This gives blueberries time to move in and end up dying horribly to the lasers from space. At the higher levels, things might be a little high. Of course, you apparently have to grind vast numbers of matches to get up here, but 15 teamkills is quite a few. Once you reach a high standings level you might choose to grief your teammates a bit if you donGÇÖt like a couple of them. Part of this is based on the absence of any extra penalty for killing expensive items. If thereGÇÖs a ThaleGÇÖs sniper in your redline who you donGÇÖt particularly like, then you can kill them without much consequence at the high levels. Similarly, if you kill a friendly tank and thereGÇÖs only one person in it, then there isnGÇÖt any difference between killing that and killing a militia dropsuit. Additionally, if you start shooting the tank and the pilot jumps out but you kill the tank anyway, would there be a penalty? If not, thatGÇÖs rather broken. I think there should be some factoring in isk costs, but I imagine itGÇÖs a difficult balance. If itGÇÖs too harsh, then some random protoberry wandering into an orbital could cost you huge amounts of standings. Even if itGÇÖs a bit less harsh than that I know some people, myself included, would grief people by driving expensive tanks into their orbitals and instakicking them from FW. I have a suggestion for this GÇô itGÇÖs not perfect, though, and itGÇÖs only a suggestion. 1.Factor in the ISK costs of items, making it more punishing to kill expensive suits GÇô You could keep the number of kills per level of standings and then have different value items take more of that quota up. As an example value, for every 100k that the destroyed item costs, increase the number of kills that it counts for by one. Kill a 200k suit? 3 kills towards your quota. 2.Ensure vehicle isk cost counts towards this quota, even if there isnGÇÖt a pilot. 3.Cap the number of GÇÿkillsGÇÖ per kill to prevent people from deliberately killing expensive suits on team-mates to get them instantly kicked. 4.Show the quota every time you team-kill someone. The advantage of this system is that it reduces isk based griefing to more manageable levels. ItGÇÖs still possible if you want to go on an awox spree, but it makes the penalties more tangible if you want to kill expensive suits. The other problem is that people may well make alts for the express purpose of griefing enemy FW factions. Even if you can only get a couple of kills before being kicked, you can have a huge impact on the match with just those two kills GÇô for example, planting a remote explosive on a hack point and blowing up your teammates so the enemy captures it instead. I think that there should be a WP total you should reach, 10k for example, before you can join FW contracts. This keeps the entry bar low but makes it more difficult to spam grief alts. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5178	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:46:00 - [2] - Quote [P2] LP stores, isk rewards, and the player market This is another pretty major shakeup. Firstly, letGÇÖs talk about the parity between the LP stores. I donGÇÖt think theyGÇÖre balanced. Racial balance issues and the lack of suits for some races aside, there are some modules which are pretty much ubiquitous which are specific to some races. Some of my complaints are about the Caldari LP store GÇô Full disclosure: I fight for the Gallente. Is there any reason why damage modifiers shouldnGÇÖt be shared across all the races? The Caldari get the light damage modifier, which is almost certainly the most common damage modifier and is pretty much ubiquitous. Codebreakers being in the Gallente store is a little baffling considering the Minmatar logistics has a hacking bonus. I know the plasma cannon is a hilariously bad weapon, but Gallente have three specialist weapons in their store compared to the two everyone else gets. I also dislike the Caldari LP store having two more powerful versions of equipment compared to the one everyone else gets. These are perhaps minor complaints but seeing as LP is the main incentive an imbalance here could force a numbers advantage to one side. The other concern I have here is the lack of an isk reward despite the isk cost for items in the LP store and the lack of a player market. Not being able to earn isk at all in FW means that you cannot play it sustainably unless you use BPO gear, and even then you wonGÇÖt be able to get the LP rewards because you have no way of getting isk playing FW. The player market solves that GÇô it creates an economy around FW. ThereGÇÖd be some balancing necessary here as well GÇô if the isk cost and LP cost is too great then the items are too expensive and nobody would really buy them, so FW isnGÇÖt a viable source of income, for example. ItGÇÖs crucial that if there are no isk payouts the player market needs to accompany the LP system. FW would shrivel up as people go to play other game modes if that happens. Neither can you simply leave the isk payouts in until the player market arrives, as that creates a big windfall for people farming LP before the market (they get isk AND LP). Additionally, the player market helps balance the warzone out. If one side is getting crushed, then their LP items will become more expensive, attracting people to fight for them to earn more isk. So far in FW, weGÇÖve consistently had one side or the other dominating in both warzones. There has almost never been a balance. This would help change that. [P3] The importance of team deploy and little things I can sum up most of the reasoning for team deploy in a single sentence: Friendly fire + Blueberries = Nightmares, horror, despair, etc. Q-syncing is going to happen in a more competitive environment like FW is turning out to be. At the moment, itGÇÖs a nightmare to do. As for little things: Scotty errors. Good grief, these are a huge pain. From my understanding, these are caused by there being no more districts for one side to fight over (or something). Surely if one side is winning that much then it wouldnGÇÖt hurt much to give them more attacks to generate more battles? Half-full battles. Would it be possible to only generate matches if there are full teams available for both sides? This would make matchmaking slower of course, particularly if thereGÇÖs a numbers advantage, but itGÇÖs very difficult to recover from joining a match where youGÇÖve already been redlined because there was previously nobody on your team. ItGÇÖs also boring to have a match with nobody on the other team. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5178	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:47:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Stephen Seneca Templis Dragoons 5	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:24:00 - [4] - Quote I do agree. Im Caldari btw but the items in the LP store should have equivalents for each race. As well as faction weapons like a State Rail Rifle and Federation Shotgun.. etc. I also had a few ideas about fw in this post I think people should get behind. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1483832#post1483832 PS. The Gals dont need any more people atm :-p
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 391	Posted - 2013.11.18 21:40:00 - [5] - Quote Still reading through...initially, I'd be interested to know where they would place profile dampeners when and if those come on board as AUR variants. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 391	Posted - 2013.11.18 21:48:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 1.Factor in the ISK costs of items, making it more punishing to kill expensive suits GÇô You could keep the number of kills per level of standings and then have different value items take more of that quota up. As an example value, for every 100k that the destroyed item costs, increase the number of kills that it counts for by one. Kill a 200k suit? 3 kills towards your quota. While I think you're getting at an important factor here, I could see this becoming a particular problem with the accidental logi team kill. Depending on how that suit is fit, it might be particularly squishy whilst carrying proto equipment thus driving up the value of suit. If this suit accidentally runs in front of a heavy machine gunner, that player is now down '3' strikes. Also I imagine that the bug where team kills currently counted for players that die in your dropship would have to be fixed. I one ship full of proto fit players was destroyed that may mean immediate 24h dismissal for a player from one faction's battles [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5237	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:06:00 - [7] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 1.Factor in the ISK costs of items, making it more punishing to kill expensive suits GÇô You could keep the number of kills per level of standings and then have different value items take more of that quota up. As an example value, for every 100k that the destroyed item costs, increase the number of kills that it counts for by one. Kill a 200k suit? 3 kills towards your quota. While I think you're getting at an important factor here, I could see this becoming a particular problem with the accidental logi team kill. Depending on how that suit is fit, it might be particularly squishy whilst carrying proto equipment thus driving up the value of suit. If this suit accidentally runs in front of a heavy machine gunner, that player is now down '3' strikes. Also I imagine that the bug where team kills currently counted for players that die in your dropship would have to be fixed. I one ship full of proto fit players was destroyed that may mean immediate 24h dismissal for a player from one faction's battles If it's truly accidental for the hypothetical TK it won't result in an instant-kick, and if you're being careful the quota will still allow you to continue relatively unheeded. I would worry that people start jumping in front of people's fire to grief them, even in expensive suits, but I'm not sure what could be done about that. That bug could be very, very nasty here. Even without the additional isk penalty that has the potential to have a huge impact on dropship pilots getting shot down. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.


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